The Ethics of Optional Item Sales

[GenJoe]

The idea is that you're paying a company for a game service. Part of that service includes the idea that the developers will continue to work on new assets to add to the game you're paying a monthly payment for

Yeah.. try telling a cop "I pay your salary" and see where that leads ya :P

Just because you pay SE for their services, it doesn't mean you're entitled to every little bit of their creation. That'd be nice I admit, there are some indie developers that take user feedback and put it directly into the games and even allowing users to have direct input on how the funds are used, but that is certainly not the norm. Also, SE's sheer size and structure would make that impossible to achieve.

Not to mention the varying degrees of customer expectations, you can't possibly please everybody.. Might as well take the path that makes them the money.

[Whiteroom]

Aren't most of the things in the cash shop thing that were already developed in the game? Like vanity form previous seasonals? There really isnt any additional development costs on those. You could even say that the profits form that gets funneled back into the development of the other products.

[seida]

I think the reason it stings is because for a long time there was no cash shop - we DID get everything to do with the game included in our sub.

Then suddenly that changed, so of course it seemed scary and greedy.

I don't really have a problem with what they are selling so far, I just hope they keep it along those lines.

[XxSliphxX]

If you think this game is bad try playing Tera then get back to me about how this system is soooo unfair. Also

[DreadRabbit]

Well when game-time items are up for sale and traded for game-money. That's one commodity that every player needs, and not just for vanity purposes. So there's almost endless demand for it as long as people are playing.. So that dramatically decreases the need for RMT sites as the middle man.

I'm not even going to try and work with this logic. You're assuming that players will be fair with their pricing on premium items. Unless SE does what WoW does and sets a definite gil price on [insert premium item here], that will not ever happen. Period. People can claim they want to help other players all they want. What they're really saying is "let me legally pay $10 and suddenly have 10 million gil in my pocket." Just be honest and admit it already.

My stance still stands. Cash shop should be system-side services (transfers, name change, etc.), fantasia, and un-tradeable vanity items. SE's cash shop is fine as it is.

[Welsper59]

The idea is that you're paying a company for a game service. Part of that service includes the idea that the developers will continue to work on new assets to add to the game you're paying a monthly payment for. Turning around and charging you for those same new assets you've already helped pay to create is, well, not right (no matter how you want to dress it up). Now, you can say "don't buy it if you don't like it", but that doesn't change any of what I just said.

Forcing your own opinions upon others, no matter how many people might agree, does not mean you are right. Point out any part of the paid subscription agreement that states specifically that that is what the service you pay for entitles you to.

Whether you acknowledge that or not doesn't matter, as even game developers themselves understand this.

Isn't this like you saying "it doesn't matter if there's no proof, I'm always right".

It's very true that not all of the money spent by the players goes entirely to FFXIV. Only an idiot (or someone that is ignorant of fiscal duties) would think otherwise. There are dues to be paid for credit card transactions, server usage, employee salaries, etc. Not to mention the fact that SE is not a company catering solely to FFXIV, and given that the FFXIV team works for SE, well... money is generally pooled to the company itself. Encumbrances are usually set from this pool for departments to use. If issuing more money to a department means better production and profits, then more money is likely to be given to said department. So if the Cash Shop brings in profit, SE will likely decide to give FFXIV a larger budget if requested, which means more quality content/products/services/etc to be had from the department.

[myahele]

The closest thing to unethical is the head gear that boosts exp gained if you get the CE. Luckily that only goes up to lv 20

[GenJoe]

I'm not even going to try and work with this logic. You're assuming that players will be fair with their pricing on premium items. Unless SE does what WoW does and sets a definite gil price on [insert premium item here], that will not ever happen. Period. People can claim they want to help other players all they want. What they're really saying is "let me legally pay $10 and suddenly have 10 million gil in my pocket." Just be honest and admit it already.

My stance still stands. Cash shop should be system-side services (transfers, name change, etc.), fantasia, and un-tradeable vanity items. SE's cash shop is fine as it is.

Players don't HAVE to sell it at a "fair" price.
RMTs sell gil at about $3/million.

That is 5 million gil for $15. $15 being a month's sub.

You don't think there will be enough people to buy a month's sub for 5 million gil? People will likely pay 10-20 million + for a month's sub.. So RMTs will either have to reduce their gil pricing to be competitive, or quit. RMTs simply cannot be competitive with player run economy because most people perceive RMT prices to be exorbitant.. When players trade game-time for gil, prices of gil will drop beyond the point of profitability for most people, especially a company with the overhead.

"let me legally pay $10 and suddenly have 10 million gil in my pocket." Just be honest and admit it already.

I admit that, I see absolutely no problem with it if it's taking place within the economy and providing flow of gil.
How's buying gil from another player any worse than buying gil from RMT? At least if SE condoned the player based RMT economy, prices will not be exorbitant and gil WILL trade places more freely. I would LOVE to be able to use some of my gil.. except there's nothing I can buy with it. If they introduced a month's sub as an in-game item I'd gladly pay 30 million gil for a month's worth.

[Curia_Regis]

Usually people who have issues with cash shops have never had a job in their lives and don't have the money to spend on in game items regardless, I find. Just ask your mom to let you use her card to buy dyes, OP.

[DreadRabbit]

You don't think there will be enough people to buy a month's sub for 5 million gil? People will likely pay 10-20 million + for a month's sub.. So RMTs will either have to reduce their gil pricing to be competitive, or quit. RMTs simply cannot be competitive with player run economy because most people perceive RMT prices to be exorbitant.. When players trade game-time for gil, prices of gil will drop beyond the point of profitability for most people, especially a company with the overhead.

I'm going to stop here and say this is where we agree to disagree. What you sell from the cash shop doesn't matter. F2P games allow this and have no subscription fee pay walls. They allow almost their entire premium item inventory to be traded/sold within the player base. Guess what? RMT bots still exist in those games too. Some they're quite rampant actually. So this entire argument I've seen lately that Plex/game time player trading reduces/chases away RMT is utter bologna. Again, you just want to pay $10 to get instant gil and not potentially be banned for it. I'm not saying it's wrong to want that, but that has never been nor will it ever be positive growth in a multiplayer game.

Did the cash-shop item trade in other games. Seen multiple times the long term effects of it. Many things changed. RMT was not one of those.