Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

[Evergrey]

For the sake of fairness, (although I know we'll see some people pull this off somehow with some creative subligar use...);


Does this make sense when it's on a male? Double standards?

Makes just as much sense like the female version.
But why didn't the male get a fabulous skirt and some boob-plates? Sexist. (sarcasm ofc)
Oh, and a bellybutton plate. And open mouth-helmet. How would people see the fabulous facial hair?

[Kanemano]

Shock value to drive a point home, although I'm really not for one or the other in regards to the female. Just thought it'd be fun to give a visual on the issue.

[Kanemano]

I did another female version. This time of one of the generic armor sets that was previewed, this one assumed to be common for all melee dps (although it shows gunner equipped). Not as extreme, but where do you draw the line? Does an exposed chest and thighs belong in battle? Or maybe we assume the look is part of an identity for the character?



I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

[Eidolon]

I did another female version. This time of one of the generic armor sets that was previewed, this one assumed to be common for all melee dps (although it shows gunner equipped). Not as extreme, but where do we draw the line? Does an exposed chest and thighs belong in battle? Or maybe we assume the look is part of an identity for the character?



I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

I like that design o.o

[Mahri]

I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

No, it's relevant. And a sadly accurate example.

Seeing as how it isn't AF, I could take it or leave it. And taken on it's own, the female version shown on the left isn't inherently bad (hell, we still need a good leotard-looking body piece). It's when you include both male and female versions in the image -- that's where the problem starts. That overbearing forcing of GIRLS ALWAYS GOTTA BE SEXY down everyone's throats.

I'm very grateful that, for the most part, FFXIV's artists avoid this. Other than the bewildering alteration they made to the DRG AF, they otherwise tend to only put in an occasional skirt where guys get pants. Scholar AF, the level 15 dungeon sets, etc. And that is very, very easily glamoured over. Seeing as how the chest piece tends to be the centerpiece of an armor set, chopping out a cleavage/belly window is the single fastest way to wreck the whole image you were going for in the name of sex appeal.

Also, the MMO Tera's only relevance to this discussion is they take that and run with it to an utterly moronic extreme. The demon-ladies dressed in a piece of string aren't even the worst of it. No, that dubious award goes to the obligatory 'short' race, whose females look like anime twelve-year-olds, and all of their gear is lingerie. It is skeevy as hell.

For the sake of fairness, (although I know we'll see some people pull this off somehow with some creative subligar use...);


Does this make sense when it's on a male? Double standards?

Now see, if male and female DRK AF shared that look? No problem!

Just, y'know, it'd tell a completely different story of what Dark Knight was supposed to be. In this case, it says that this job is the comedy option.

[Ashrak]

I agree with the op. Subtly adapting to the shape of boobs should be the maximum real. But not the boob / belly window thing.

[Alacran]

I did another female version. This time of one of the generic armor sets that was previewed, this one assumed to be common for all melee dps (although it shows gunner equipped). Not as extreme, but where do you draw the line? Does an exposed chest and thighs belong in battle? Or maybe we assume the look is part of an identity for the character?



I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

I think your doing a great job, capturing the true issue through great visuals and use of talent. The only problem i see with it is many are going to ignore the message because their to busy hopeing your accurate in your presentations of the "female armor" option. Some people say prudes, some claim fantasy is greater than sense, few bother to understand that these characters are someones representation of themselves in the world of Erozea. Speaking as a guy, yes i don't mind the skimpy stuff on a female characters ( i have stated this in previous post in this thread).

My issue is when i to look at this as a father, a brother, someone who loves the idea of sharing this with the females in his life, how do i explain to them why when i play a DRG i look like a warrior that is trained and outfitted to fight dragons, when they do it it looks like should just sit on the sideline with some pompom's like good little cheerleaders waiting for me to be done being the hero?

[Dualblade]

I think your doing a great job, capturing the true issue through great visuals and use of talent. The only problem i see with it is many are going to ignore the message because their to busy hoping you accurate if your presentations of the "female armor" option. Some people say prudes, some claim fantasy is greater than sense, few bother to understand that these characters are someones representation of themselves in the world of Erozea. Speaking as a guy, yes i don't mind the skimpy stuff on a female characters ( i have stated this in previous post in this thread). My issue is when i to look at this like a father, a brother, someone who loves the idea of sharing this with the females in his life, how do i explain to them why when i play a DRG i look like a warrior that is trained and outfitted to fight dragons, when they do it it looks like should just sit on the sideline with some pompoms like good little cheerleaders waiting for me to be done being the hero?

This could actually also be part of why some people don't get why its so upsetting to some, myself included. The reason I include myself is because I know many women who would probably not care or even very much like it. Everyone has different tastes, it isn't just a straight up "men like skimpy women outfits thats why they made it this way" type of thing.

[Nephera]

So when I see these threads where people are clamoring for their female character to wear EXACTLY what a man wears, I shake my head in disappointment. If you want to play as a girl and look like a dude because you think it's more respectful, then just get a male character with long hair, problem solved.

No

[Mahri]

My issue is when i to look at this as a father, a brother, someone who loves the idea of sharing this with the females in his life, how do i explain to them why when i play a DRG i look like a warrior that is trained and outfitted to fight dragons, when they do it it looks like should just sit on the sideline with some pompom's like good little cheerleaders waiting for me to be done being the hero?

This is a good way to illustrate the point. Speaking personally, fully half the people I know who play MMOs (which are a lot of people) are women -- and demographic studies have shown that this isn't far off from the greater whole. I don't think I've ever heard a single one of these ladies say they object to sexy imagery altogether, but most of them agree that having the choice is better and makes it feel as if the game's artists are paying them due respect, as fans, by providing that choice. That means keeping a job's core look relatively under control and not going in dramatically different directions for each gender.

Putting myself in the FFXIV artists' heads over the DRG thing: It's possible that they figured the belly-window was fine because the DRG AF is supposed to look outlandish anyway. This is backed up by dragoons' depictions in Heavensward media as being almost kamikaze-crazy -- they're Ishgard's meanest and most fervent, they're less interested in self-preservation and more interested in being these ominous, deadly-quick bladed-armored nightmares to Ishgard's enemies. Yet even still, the belly-window still comes off as a weird off-color attempt at sex appeal, because the look of the male set already does just fine for this image.

Compare the Scholar AF. While Scholars have Eorzean lore, the concept itself is far more self-explanatory than those of Dragoons. They're students of higher learning, and this is their uniform. Guys get pants, girls get a skirt. The skirt gives them a touch of the classic "schoolgirl" image. This is absolutely fine. It's recognizable, doesn't detract from the Scholar's persona, and is a perfectly excellent fashion choice in it's own right.

Mahri (OP) actually says they feel like sexy time has its place in game so... not the OP's point to be prudish and devolved. Are you talking about someone in particular?

Heh, most of them aren't actually reading the post, they're just seeing the thread title and their shrill little "SJW-alert" goes off. Oh my GOD you guuuyyyss someone on the INTERNET wants to take my wank-material aawaaaaaaahhhhhhayyyyyyyyyyyy.