Titan issues that need addressing.

[Arixtotle]

It's by no means a perfect implementation, but "obviously broken" implies it doesn't work.....meaning we'd all probably still be stuck on chimera or some earlier fight to this day. It doesn't make sense to me when people complain about core details of the combat system in this game but still choose to play it (since we're explicitly talking about titan here and the mechanic in question appears in the main scenario).

But please, continue to call out everyone else on their "blind faith" you "silly heretic" lmao.

Not working as intended equals broken. Unless you honestly believe it's working as intended.

[Izsha]

Yes, i was talking about the damage animations. Explosions, etc post cast bar. A lot of people don't realize that it's way to late at that point and blame lag when they just aren't aware that the cast bar finished 2 sec earlier and damage just wasn't applied till animation completes, but has long been decided.

As for lag, it can happen. I did titan hm back at 2.0 on hotel wifi on a trip with my coil group. I was on the other side of the arena but hotel wifi was such crap I never dodged a single landslide, though I did it for weeks at home prior. That was just a connectivity issue, but things like that se can't help you with so it's on you to fix it.

As far as the warning telegraph and lag, that is machine lag like the I'm famous ps3 issue where plumes would load graphically delayed because ps3 is a dinosaur. It got the message that titan was casting (not an Internet issue) but couldn't get the graphics up. That's a hardware related issue. Like any pc game, if you are having trouble the 1st thing you should do is drop your graphics options down to minimum everything and see if you continue to have the problem. Lower your resolution. Turn off effects. Turn shadows off etc. That is something you can try to do something about easily.

If it's a network issue, that's a little more complicated and challenging unless your super tech savy. But this idea that the servers work fine for a bunch of people but are crap for other people doesn't make sense. If the servers were horrible, EVERY ONE would struggle. The fact that it's not everyone means lag is generally something between you and their server. America's Internet infrastructure is the oldest and worst in 1st world countries. That's what we get for being the 1st to get it. It sucks and sometimes there isn't much you can do about it. But yelling at se because your only provider option is Comcast running over ancient infrastructure isn't going to do anything.

[Izsha]

I guess the netcode is tight for some but not for me.

Or maybe I should think about it with a game designer hat on. Network systems aren't really my thing but from what I understand FFXIV was designed from the ground up to have a server-dictated live state as opposed to a client-dictated one. When the in game actions are determined by the server instead of the client the lag can kill you. There's no observable difference in combat for people with sound internet connections but folks like me it's a bit rough. I say move and I move but the server still sees me standing where I was a second ago.

WoW has, I think, a client-dictated live state so things like AoEs etc seem to sync up better there.

Soooo I guess what I am saying is I frequently wish the game was client-dictated. But that would take SE a year or so to do and a whole lot of money, it's not happening.

There was a point to all this rambling originally, I'm sick today and forget where this train of thought was supposed to go.

Trouble with that is the more you rely on clients the easier it is to hack. If my position on my client decides if I take damage instead of the server, I only have to hack my client to adjust my position and I dodge aoes (teleport, speed hacks etc) because the server doesn't have a chance to check me 1st.

You also have issues of desyncronizing multiple clients. Right now the fight happens in real time on 1 server. Plumes go out the server decides who gets hit and insanely sends hp data out to the healer client so they can heal. If it's client based, the server sends a message 'titan casting plumes'. All 8 get the message. Plumes go off (still client), and clients individually decide who gets hit then send that data back. then whm gets a memo to heal. What happens if the server doesn't receive plume hit or not data from 1 client? Does it just guess what happened? Does it wait until everyone's arrives tell the healer who got hit? It really creates problems. Server side is way simpler with the downside of lag sucking.

[Gyson]

If it's a network issue, that's a little more complicated and challenging unless your super tech savy. But this idea that the servers work fine for a bunch of people but are crap for other people doesn't make sense. If the servers were horrible, EVERY ONE would struggle. The fact that it's not everyone means lag is generally something between you and their server. America's Internet infrastructure is the oldest and worst in 1st world countries. That's what we get for being the 1st to get it. It sucks and sometimes there isn't much you can do about it. But yelling at se because your only provider option is Comcast running over ancient infrastructure isn't going to do anything.

I would argue that it's the responsibility of the developers to keep potential problems like that in mind when developing content. There are at least a few action-based online games out there that manage to successfully pull off twitch-based gameplay (in my opinion FFXIV's combat, for the most part, is one of the furthest things from twitch-based). We're talking about an instanced encounter in an extremely simple, small environment with 8 people and an NPC - if you're developing for a game that can't develop a solid twitch-based experience despite having all of that simplicity in your favor, then don't design the encounters to be twitch-based. That seems no-brainer'ish, to me.

Instead, we're forced to accept that Titan is more about memorization and group coordination (i.e. proper stacking so that memorization and anticipation can actually pay off), which I feel makes for a far less exciting encounter. Honestly, assuming the delay between cast bar, animation, and damage application can not be tightened, I would probably prefer to have the cast time lengthened - at least then people are able to react through reflex rather than playing a memory game where success is based on how tightly the group can stack positions.

[LunaHoshino]

The issues you're describing have nothing to do with server-client lag-- they're entirely graphical lag caused by your computer. I know because I have the same problems.

The good news is, you learn to deal with it and compensate. I got my own Titan EX clear just a few days ago by starting to move a second or so before the cast bar even appears on my screen. Titan is a 100% scripted fight, so all you need to do is know when WotL is going to happen in his rotation and react preemptively.

[siverstorm]

Not working as intended equals broken. Unless you honestly believe it's working as intended.

Wow. I'm starting to get the feeling you don't know what "working as intended" or "broken" mean.

You know exactly what the devs intended when they made the combat system? That's amazing I'm pretty sure like 99.9% of the playerbase don't know that! Please enlighten all of us to what the devs intended when they made the combat system! Putting the cast timers on the server sounds like it was pretty intentional to me. Thus my original statement about it not being "perfect" but it definitely works.

If you think it's broken then you should probably get used to it unless they start talking about re-vamping the battle system. Every fight in the game with dodgeable mechanics works exactly the same, and people have no problems when you go from easy pre-50 content all the way down to coil.

Broken means the content either is getting cheesed by a glitch or the content is literally unclearable. Please don't use terms like "broken" when the general populace has no problems dealing with the content as is. Maybe you have problems with the content but that doesn't mean it's "broken". If they changed the server code to the point where content becomes un-clearable or mechanics are un-dodgeable then it could be considered "broken".

There's a significant difference between something genuinely being "broken" and something being designed unfavorably in your opinion.

[Izsha]

The issues you're describing have nothing to do with server-client lag-- they're entirely graphical lag caused by your computer. I know because I have the same problems.

The good news is, you learn to deal with it and compensate. I got my own Titan EX clear just a few days ago by starting to move a second or so before the cast bar even appears on my screen. Titan is a 100% scripted fight, so all you need to do is know when WotL is going to happen in his rotation and react preemptively.

So much this. I ramble and loose my points but simply put there are 3 separate issues that frequently get lumped under 'lag provlems'.

1. Graphical delays. Like described in op. Cast bar out of synch with graphic indicators. Hardware issue. Your machine isn't displaying the graphics fast enough. Dumb down your graphics as much as possible, or upgrade your machine. I turned of everyone's effects but mine months ago. I don't need to see constant flares, holies and dragonfire dives when I'm tanking, and neither does my video card.

Not lag.

2. Misunderstanding when the game decides damage. When cast bar is done you need to be safe. Not when the plumes actually explode. It's way to late at that point. Solution: make cast bar gui bigger and move to prominent place. Learn to keep an eye on it. (SE could adjust timings of animations to be more intuitive, but until then learn the game as its currently designed).

Not lag.

3. Lag. Check your wires, router, etc. Bug your isp if it's always there. Try stuff like wtfast. This is the hardest thing to fix. Lots of googling solutions and prayer needed.

It's lag.

Most people's problems are 1 and 2. If you fix 1 and 2, you need absolutely nightmarishly bad lag to make this game 'unplayable'. People play from Europe and function. People play from Australia and function. Chances are if the game is 'unplayable' for you, then you have a lot of 1 and 2 going on. Unplayable lag is really not that common, but other problems are mistakenly lumped into lag. Check everything else before you throw up your hands and cry lag. In most cases it's not.

[Arixtotle]

snip

I said nothing about the battle system. I don\\'t understand where you got that from. This is about this specific instance obviously not working as intended. You really think they meant for what the OP described to happen? Really? Did you even read the OP?

[AdamFyi]

I went ahead and watched a couple of videos, specifically observing the moment Titan casts Weight of the Land and Landslide. It's pretty odd. Some videos have the animation start up immediately when Titan starts casting, and some other videos have the animation pop up with a slight delay (which isn't noticeable unless you look carefully) after Titan starts casting. There were also moments in the same videos where the animation delay is varied. One moment the animation pops up immediately and another moment it has that delay.

[LunaHoshino]

-snip-

Exactly. There's a very simple way to tell if it's actually lag: are you getting hit by Landslides? If you're experiencing true lag, you can be two inches out of the Landslide on your monitor and be sent flying anyway.

If you aren't having any trouble dodging those, though, then it isn't lag.