Fan Census: This is embarrassing

[Zephyr-Umbra]

I think a lot of it has to do with the toxic nature on most EU/NA servers, if some people mess up the mechanics even once, even in T1 through to Fcob people will quit, people will complain, people will bitch moan and in general be dicks. The Japanese players are not not like this, they communicate and try to make each other better, apologise if they mess up and try to learn from their mistakes. And hey a lot of people in the EU/NA do try to learn from their mistakes the main difference is most people aren't willing to teach or explain to people what they're doing wrong and will straight up call them out for being useless and a noob, which go figure pushes people away from wanting to do this type of content, it has a stigma for being hardcore and it is hard but people will shy away from doing something if they are given shit for not doing it in the most optimal or obscure way others do it.

If you want to encourage more people to coil first deal with the asshole community we have at endgame, then perhaps more people will feel like being competitive and completing this content.

[Sapphic]

I think a lot of it has to do with the toxic nature on most EU/NA servers, if some people mess up the mechanics even once, even in T1 through to Fcob people will quit, people will complain, people will bitch moan and in general be dicks.

From experience, the ones who do that the most are the ones who make the most mistakes, yet are unable to accept to themselves that they have and direct the blame to others through raging. Some of the players that bought their win or got carried fall into that also.

Egos, for some, are oh, so fragile.

[Mercutial]

From experience, the ones who do that the most are the ones who make the most mistakes, yet are unable to accept to themselves that they have and direct the blame to others through raging. Some of the players that bought their win or got carried fall into that also.

This has been pretty much my experience as well. The truly top-tier players are rarely ragers and more often very kind and helpful to others.

[siverstorm]

This has been pretty much my experience as well. The truly top-tier players are rarely ragers and more often very kind and helpful to others.

Pretty much my experience also. Worst I've seen from a "non-rager" player is that a lot are very blunt or think about the content in the same way as they do in raid. "What went wrong? You fucked up x? Okay, don't do it again and let's try again." Which doesn't translate well and people just take offence and get super sensitive about it.

[Aureyo]

Pretty much my experience also. Worst I've seen from a "non-rager" player is that a lot are very blunt or think about the content in the same way as they do in raid. "What went wrong? You fucked up x? Okay, don't do it again and let's try again." Which doesn't translate well and people just take offence and get super sensitive about it.

Thank you so much for this post. People always want to lump end game raiders as elitist and most of us aren't. I promise we're not, especially when I go from t13 farming to helping out my friends in t9 for hours upon hours into the night. Thank you Silverstorm and Mercutial for the honesty about endgame raiding.

[Sapphic]

Thank you so much for this post. People always want to lump end game raiders as elitist and most of us aren't. I promise we're not, especially when I go from t13 farming to helping out my friends in t9 for hours upon hours into the night. Thank you Silverstorm and Mercutial for the honesty about endgame raiding.

A lot of the hatred comes from jealousy and that, in a way, we are an easy demographic to target with vitriol. Not saying all players that have cleared coil legit (aka not paid for it) are polite people. But neither are all casual of which Ive seen more foul mannered examples than within the succesful raiding community.

Not to mention, how many casual players take so much time out of their schedule to write all the great guides that are available to everyone on the internet? No, it's the players that get branded with the "Elitist" tag that go that extra 10 miles to give back to the community by creating them.

[Malevicton]

People probably get sensitive about it because there is nothing constructive about that comment. Offer advice or encourage, "don't fuck up again" offers nothing but bitterness. I usually ask someone struggling if they need advice on how to avoid something instead of just calling them out. Usually the player who screwed up is already pissed off at themselves and don't need to be poked.

Different strokes for different folks. If I make a dumb mistake and I know I made it, I'd prefer siverstorm's response. Acknowledge the mistake and move on. Like you said, I'm probably already kicking myself over the mistake anyways. Unsolicited advice would come off as really condescending to me in that situation. That's not to say that giving advice is bad by any means, but if it's not needed then it becomes more about you cultivating an image of helpfulness rather than actually being helpful.

Edit: Sometimes wipes happen. You don't necessarily need a constructive comment about it. Sometimes you just need a retry.

[siverstorm]

snip

Depends on context.

If you're confused about a mechanic then speak up. Learning parties should be filled with questions and talking. If I'm personally in a learning party to help people then yeah I'll try to promote conversation.

Farm parties could have the occasional wipe but if it's the same thing over and over it stops being a farm. I'll be blunt if you join a farm party because I'm assuming you know what to do. Not saying I'm perfect 100% of the time at all and I don't expect 100% perfect play of anyone all the time especially in a pug.

Not all players register that the screw up was their fault. I've met a sadly significant portion of those types yesterday alone trying to pug t10 farming.

[AkashiXI]

This has been pretty much my experience as well. The truly top-tier players are rarely ragers and more often very kind and helpful to others.

Eh... it's a player by player basis, imo. It's easy to hate a general idea (hardcores/casuals/rpers/etc), but it's hard to judge individuals. I'd say it's a mixed bag, from the years of hardcore raiding I have under my belt. I'm at the point where I simply say, "This isn't for me, sorry." and leave, regardless of what others think. I'd rather bow out and be hated for it than to stay and complain about performance issues.

[LunaHoshino]

This has been pretty much my experience as well. The truly top-tier players are rarely ragers and more often very kind and helpful to others.

Mine too. My very first T9 clear was thanks to the help of a very kind SCH & SMN duo (decked out in Dreadwyrm gear) who joined our PF and told us they would stick with us until we cleared. It took us a few tries, but we finally got it down, and they were nothing but helpful and encouraging the entire time.

Different strokes for different folks. If I make a dumb mistake and I know I made it, I'd prefer siverstorm's response. Acknowledge the mistake and move on. Like you said, I'm probably already kicking myself over the mistake anyways.

This. Nine times out of ten, if I make a mistake, I know exactly what it was and don't need to be told. That's why I usually will say "I'm sorry, that was my bad. I did/didn't do X" to show that I know what I messed up on. I don't really need advice or encouragement in that situation; I just need to try it again without the messing up part.