Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[siverstorm]

Cerberus, who's every single mechanic is still 'Deal with Adds', 'Avoid AOEs except THAT one' (which yes we've seen before), and 'Stack on his flanks and lay on the damage'?

I don't think it's a far cry to assume that a lot of people complaining about the fights in here are just going to blindly call for nerfs because the content is "too hard" for them without wanting to put the same kind of effort into it. They want a free ride to current content (on top of better gear and echo) and don't want to spend even a fraction of the time and effort that others have put into the fight but they still want the "achievement" in their log for killing it. A lot of the responses are akin to this at this point. And the devs have responded as such by ensuing future content will be accessible to these players who don't want to put the same effort into it as others (normal mode Alexander).

Some of the complainers in here are kinda running in circles with their points too which I'm finding kinda funny. Or just openly nitpicking some quotes out of context in an attempt to make a point. Or maybe they're just trying to provoke raiders into outright saying "omg u scrubs can't figure this out? stay bad kthx" and fall back to the "toxic elitist" argument...who knows.

1) Simplify the number of mechanics to an easily memorable amount (players should not have to study like its a 100 question test) I would say no more than 4-5 mechanics
...

A good example of content they did that was good was when Titan EX first came out, it was challenging but fun, when you cleared it you had a feeling of accomplishment but it wasn't impossible.

T5, T8, T9, T10, T11, T12, and T13 have all the same exact organized memorization fight mechanics, and offer nothing different besides the name of the attack and the damage it deals, it all boils down to dodge/stack for over half of the endgame Coil content.

> Wants to see more dodge/stack mechanics, raved in a few posts about how well designed titan ex was
> All of the content that I was complaining about being too much is all just dodge/stack mechanics

?????

For the amount of time put into these posts I feel like a solid amount of progression could've gone into clearing whatever turn of coil you're stuck on.

I wonder if the normal mode alexander will still have some skill/competency checks that people will pop in and complain about (I figure it would be akin to Steps of Faith in terms of difficulty in a pug maybe a touch harder than that like T5 minus twisters or something).

[OMEGA_HACK]

snipped for space

I'm not saying dodge/stack mechanics are bad, I'm saying relying ONLY on them will cause problems down the road if they want to make content more challenging, but once again my words are misconstrued. Titan EX was a good when it came out as it was the first challenging bit with that style of game play, however all we have seen from coil is the same type of game play, its now old and needs a change.

And it is a far cry to assume that people want to just be rewarded for doing nothing, as NO ONE is saying they don't want a challenge. However! People are saying the challenges should vary and should test more than just the players ability dodge/stack and their internet connection reliance. So please can you point out where it was said explicitly that people want something for nothing? Are are you making assumptions? Are you making far cries? Because honestly it seems you are grasping here since you are referencing two different points entirely and trying to connect the dots that don't exist. Good try though.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

I'm not saying dodge/stack mechanics are bad, I'm saying relying ONLY on them will cause problems down the road if they want to make content more challenging, but once again my words are misconstrued. Titan EX was a good when it came out as it was the first challenging bit with that style of game play, however all we have seen from coil is the same type of game play, its now old and needs a change.

While I can agree that not everything should be about stacking and spreading, we do have other fights that present somewhat different ways to handle mechanics. Chrysalis has a mechanic similar to Fire/Ice which we broke down into Stack and Spread because controlling it via the fire is easier than having the fire go out and everybody with ice going with them. (I'm speaking on the orbs that pop up that you have to 'catch' in an alternating pattern so the boss doesn't wreck you with damage (the consequence))

And MEX is only 'boring' as a tank if you're not following Tailturner and Woolywart since they don't use AOEs to do damage. They are unavoidable sources, and if they pick up something like 5 stacks because you weren't paying attention, there goes one healer... then a couple DPS to Mog Rain of Death... then yet another healer because while running to get their partner you died, so now there goes Wonderwall to go wreck his day. So the other healer possibly doesn't even get the raise confirmation, and there's your wipe. And who's to blame for Tailturner having too many stacks from the King?

But I think new stuff IS coming. ARR was supposed to be the baseline, as much has been said. But the fact that we have mechanics and we show up to these things to engage with the fight is a farsight better than WoW Raiding back in Vanilla. Steps of Faith and Chrysalis give me some hope we'll be seeing even more varied mechanics in Heavensward. But both of those fights got a large contingent of people complaining that they were 'too hard' (when indeed, all they really are is different.)

So I suppose at the end of the day what we have is a group of people arguing basically the same point. But one who is getting defensive that they don't want SE to take the only source of real challenge in the game away, because that's what they're so used to hearing on this forum, and the other group that's saying that they want to see more variance in the challenge. I still think if you focus only on player positioning as the only real source of challenge it's the only thing you're going to see, but suggesting that it's the ONLY source of challenge in Binding Coil at all is sort of a far cry too.

[siverstorm]

snip

I'll start by saying my original half wasn't just directed to you in this thread.

However you've fallen back on so many different excuses in this thread alone starting with being unable to join a static and being responded to by others that you don't need to be raiding 40 hours a week to clear content. People can and have successfully cleared fights like t5 and t9 through their servers party finders so it's not ridiculous to expect that you can learn and eventually clear the fights, yeah it'll take much longer than a static but its not impossible.

Asking for "less mechanics" is asking for nerfs to get the same achievement for less work. I don't know how you're expecting to run around that point when you literally said "fights should only have 4-5 mechanics each." Implying that more is too hard. Was that not what you were saying? Because you've been going on and on about memorizing too many things as if it wasn't possible or too difficult up until now.

So now after getting through those points we're somehow sitting on the discussion being "I want more varied fights" which I can agree. If would be nice to see some new or different things in Alexander hard. But that doesn't mean every single fight was a dodge/stack fest as you literally said. You're also lumping every fights mechanics as dodging/stacking which then if you lump certain mechanics into this makes me question what you perceive as a mechanic.

T5 dreadknights, T5 twisters, T10 charge, T7 voices/shrieks, T7 renauld management, T8 towers/allagan field, T9 red/yellow meteors, T9 Heavensfall, T11 tethers, T12 brand, T12 bennu management, T12 fountains, T13 flare stars, T13 add phase, T13 earthshakers.

All examples of mechanics that aren't simple "dodge stack lols" some of them have added dodging/stacking mechanics in them but you can't lump those all as "solved by dodging or stacking the thing" I might make an exception to t12 brand and t11 tethers. I also feel like t11 tethers made a point to bring something unique to what would be considered a basic dodging/stacking mechanic.

And if you want to fall back on the excuse "its too much to memorize" I could start listing all the mechanics I remember off the top of my head from literally every other instance in the game instead?

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

*snip*

And let's not forget about T11's Heads. That has nothing to do with position but who's in charge of Enmity when.

[siverstorm]

And let's not forget about T11's Heads. That has nothing to do with position but who's in charge of Enmity when.

Now that I think about it wouldn't T11 add management be similar? In terms of keeping them rotating around the arena. Of course there's tons of dodging and stacking from various mechanics during that so I figure that would just be argued?

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

Now that I think about it wouldn't T11 add management be similar? In terms of keeping them rotating around the arena. Of course there's tons of dodging and stacking from various mechanics during that so I figure that would just be argued?

But the real meat of that phase's challenge isn't in just dealing with the momentum of the adds, the being in the right position, not cleaving people or hitting them with lightning.

It's doing all that and making sure 2 adds die at about the same time. Which for some people is still hard.