Has it always been like this or...?

[Zabuza]

I don't feel "forced" to wait for someone new to enjoy the content. That's the view of the impatient and uncaring who are just in it for their tomes.

So the one person who expects seven people to sit around for 40 minutes twiddling their thumbs just for them when they could easily watch the cutscenes later at the inn is the altruistic one.
The seven other people who don't wait to sit around 40 minutes waiting for one person who could watch the cutscenes later are selfish jerks.

Does not compute.

If you want to watch the cutscenes during the run, you can. If you want to do the boss fights, watch the cutscenes later in the inn, it's that simple. You can't expect 7 other people to wait 40 minutes on you. To me, that is pure selfishness.

How is the seven other people's reason for queueing up any less important than the one person's reason for queueing? What if they need the soldiery tomes for something? Obviously they wouldn't of queued into it otherwise. By majority rule, the seven are more important than the one. Since the one can watch cutscenes in the inn later, I really don't see how it is so detrimental to their experience.

Look, I get it. It sucks that new players have to face this. But it's reality. There's no best solution to this. If an incentive wasn't placed for veteran players to queue up for these dungeons, new players would be facing much longer queues. Would you rather have that? Ultimately, it's SE bad on this one for putting the cutscenes in the middle of the dungeon like that.

[Ultear_Milkovich]

These guys queued for " story mode " roulette. If they are smart enough they could easily understand that one of the players is actually here to do the ... "story mode". For real.

This is the only roulette with strong ties with the MSQ scenario and with important CS. If someone is willing to watch the CS im fine with that because i can understand . ALL the other contents drop my tomes as well and the cards drop from the indolent imperial too. no need to be an a**hole like that guy who "cant compute" (maybe he just sucks? see too much people like him in the community now).

I signed for the "story mode" roulette . i ve been perfectly warned, this was in the name of the roulette... its ok then if someone actually needs the story stuff.

[Anapingofness]

snip.

You're right. Nobody deserves special treatment but everyone should be treated with respect.
If people are not after tomes and are after the card, then they can very easily set up a farming party with like minded individuals. The same cannot be said for newbies who want to enjoy the storyline.
After all, party finder was created for the sole purpose of giving veteran players a way to control their groups.
It just so happens that newbies can also use it.

snip

Yeah, you're right- it is obvious that it doesn't compute.
I'm not sure what to tell you to actually make you understand why experiencing the storyline in the dungeon, as was intended, is important to some people.
Their time and reason for playing is no less valid than the seven other people in that dungeon. I'm also not sure what to tell you to make you understand that other people don't appreciate being treated like crap for wanting to experience content in a way that doesn't agree with somebody else.

As the more experienced players here, we should be the ones with more patience and tolerance. It's not every day that you will run into a newbie who wants to watch the cs and experience the fights. (Some newbies don't care for them and that's their choice)
However, even if it is every day that this occurs, as experienced players *we* know what we are getting into when we queue up for Story Mode Roulette. We know how long those cs are and we know if we want to or not deal with them.
The answer is not, 'oi! noob go watch the cs at the inn because I want this sh*t over with asap!', the answer is "Don't queue for MSQ Roulette if you aren't prepared to let people experience the story." Whatever the vets are after from CM and Prae is something that they *WILL* have an easier time obtaining through other means.
Otherwise, the vets are being far more selfish than the newbies.

[Kiroh]

These guys queued for " story mode " roulette. If they are smart enough they could easily understand that one of the players is actually here to do the ... "story mode".

Not true at all, story mode roulette does not require any of the people entering to be new and more often than not it's 8 people only running it for the tomes.

[GenJoe]

So my question is... has the end game always been this way? Is there no one left who wants to play through the dungeon at a reasonable pace so I can appreciate the content I worked for?

Castrum and Praetorium is NOT the end-game.

Second, to your latter question, usually people are just rushing through things as part of the grind so it's hard to find too many people that will empathize with you there, maybe on the forums, but in the actual group where everybody's doing that for the Nth time, people just wanna get it over with. It's a design flaw that those two places have so many damn cut scenes.. But like you said, you watched the cut scenes the first time around, now you can do the fight second time It's not ideal, but that'll at least get things done.


Actual End-game, doesn't happen like that. If you're chasing end-game contents you'll find that you'll be doing the mindless grind much the same way as other people in your group did.. and the cut scenes are no where as long as those two places.

You're right. Nobody deserves special treatment but everyone should be treated with respect.
If people are not after tomes and are after the card, then they can very easily set up a farming party with like minded individuals. The same cannot be said for newbies who want to enjoy the storyline.

Yes, but what's easier, 7 people making their own individual pf group everyday just for 1 run for a measley ~100 tomes?? there's not enough motivation there to go through all that trouble.

Where on the other hand, the first timer with vested interest in experiencing the game as meant to be, cut scenes in between actually has the motivation to organize a group together. In fact it doesn't even need to be a full group, a group of 3 (2 heals or 2 tank) is enough to hold back the group and slow down the run. and that's what we do for my "special" friend that HAS to have it that way, the special kind that gathers his own shards for all crafting and never skips a cut scene even if he's watched it before -_- I still have a hard time understanding him lol

[Zabuza]

Yeah, you're right- it is obvious that it doesn't compute.
I'm not sure what to tell you to actually make you understand why experiencing the storyline in the dungeon, as was intended, is important to some people.
Their time and reason for playing is no less valid than the seven other people in that dungeon. I'm also not sure what to tell you to make you understand that other people don't appreciate being treated like crap for wanting to experience content in a way that doesn't agree with somebody else.

As the more experienced players here, we should be the ones with more patience and tolerance. It's not every day that you will run into a newbie who wants to watch the cs and experience the fights. (Some newbies don't care for them and that's their choice)
However, even if it is every day that this occurs, as experienced players *we* know what we are getting into when we queue up for Story Mode Roulette. We know how long those cs are and we know if we want to or not deal with them.
The answer is not, 'oi! noob go watch the cs at the inn because I want this sh*t over with asap!', the answer is "Don't queue for MSQ Roulette if you aren't prepared to let people experience the story." Whatever the vets are after from CM and Prae is something that they *WILL* have an easier time obtaining through other means.
Otherwise, the vets are being far more selfish than the newbies.

See, what you are doing here though by having the 7 other people wait is basically saying their time is less valuable than the 1 person who wants to experience the storyline. They queued up so they could finish it and get the tomes quickly. Noone wants to sit around getting nothing done for 40 minutes. If I was that 1 person I would NEVER ask 7 other people to wait around for me, I'd feel bad and I'd feel like a jerk if I did that. Hell, just an hour ago I did a CM run with 7 noobs, and I was completely patient and didn't complain at all as they ran it normally. I gave them instructions without insulting, said it was ok when they screwed things up, etc. I did this because I was the only vet in there, the majority were new players, and as such the majority rules.

Likewise, a new player who is outnumbered by 7 vets should not expect the entire run to be catered to him when EVERYONE ELSE wants to speedrun it.

[GenJoe]

See, what you are doing here though by having the 7 other people wait is basically saying their time is less valuable than the 1 person who wants to experience the storyline.

I completely agree, EXPECTING, not ASKING the group of 7 to wait for you is incredibly selfish.. My "special" friend I described above has actually done a dungeon like that once where he didn't feel right holding the group back so he just skipped the cut scenes, it bugged him enough that when I logged on, he asked me to do the dungeon with him so he can just redo it. That's reasonable, at least it shows that he's capable of acknowledging other players as actual people with their own agenda and their own time constraints..

and by "special" I don't mean special, he just has few quirks that borders on obsessive, but self-aware so as to not blame the entire World when they don't stop to look after his own needs.

[Gyson]

So my question is... has the end game always been this way? Is there no one left who wants to play through the dungeon at a reasonable pace so I can appreciate the content I worked for? Is there nothing that can be done to prevent this sort of content and player abuse? Why does Square reward such toxic behavior? I was practically in tears when I left FFXIV last night and for the first time I actually wanted to cancel my subscription and uninstall. If this is the sort of treatment I have to look forward to, I shudder to think what people will say if I ever play with less that optimal gear or I don't perform perfectly as a tank >_>;

Threads like this make me quite sad, and also make it difficult to recommend this game (which I otherwise like very much) to any of my friends who currently aren't playing it.

Poor attitudes of players aside, in my opinion the practice of scaling down the ilevel of gear in lower level dungeons should be present in every dungeon. I'm not sure why the developers are only interested in maintaining the integrity of the intended challenge only in pre-50 dungeons. I think players would lose a lot of their willingness to charge ahead without everyone else if they didn't outlevel the content by so much.

I also think nobody in the party should be able to prematurely end a cutscene if there's a first-timer on the run. That removes both the stress and burden off the new person and allows the content to be experienced as intended by the designers. Unfortunately, few would probably agree to these things because everyone wants their shinies yesterday (so they can then come here and complain about a lack of things to do).

While it's probably not feasible for everyone, I tackled this problem by scheduling a run for these two dungeons with my guild. Like you, I explained this was the big finale to the story I had waded through for 50 levels, and that I wanted to at least try to experience it properly - not only by watching the cutscenes, but by tackling the run with everyone at an average item level of ~50. My guild was cool enough to help me with this; everyone interested dusted off their artifact gear and through a group effort we got the 8-man party outfitted with crafted gear around ilevel 50 for the remaining slots. I got to experience the end of the story in a very authentic and enjoyable way, and I think it was definitely worth the effort of arranging. It is probably my fondest memory in the game right now.

[SpookyGhost]

But then the secret was revealed. These people had all done this dungeon over 50 times and was simply grinding out some obscure piece of currency with which to buy better gear.

I think your party was stuck in 2.0 and we need to get them out of Castrum Meridianum.

[Zabuza]

Poor attitudes of players aside, in my opinion the practice of scaling down the ilevel of gear in lower level dungeons should be present in every dungeon. I'm not sure why the developers are only interested in maintaining the integrity of the intended challenge only in pre-50 dungeons. I think players would lose a lot of their willingness to charge ahead without everyone else if they didn't outlevel the content by so much.

People were speed running CM back when ilvl90 was the highest you could go. Syncing it down to i90 will change nothing. Unless you mean syncing it down even further to i70 or something. In which case, veteran players will stop doing the story roulette altogether and just farm ST all day for tomes.

I also think nobody in the party should be able to prematurely end a cutscene if there's a first-timer on the run. That removes both the stress and burden off the new person and allows the content to be experienced as intended by the designers. Unfortunately, few would probably agree to these things because everyone wants their shinies yesterday (so they can then come here and complain about a lack of things to do).

If you do that, people will just straight up leave when they see a first timer, or they will mock and ridicule him even worse than now since they have no option to go ahead with the run.