Has it always been like this or...?

[Duuude007]

Like any other dungeon, if you want people to play a certain way without question, use PF and set the rules.

Alternatively, vote on progression at the start, and exit if you lose the vote. Or suck it up and go with the majority.

TLDR: Nobody is granted special snowflake privileges in DF.

[Sagittarian]

While I agree that people doing the main-scenario roulette should be expecting to wait for cutscenes, I also agree that the party finder is the actual best way to do it. The other day on Malboro we did an all-cutscenes party that was actually all people who had done it before but most had been forced to skip the cutscenes the first time through.

[Shandtacklann]

Not sure if I'm posting in the right thread. During the course of game play I've had either questions on how to handle gil spammers or had an issue with another player for some reason or another. GM Elrisivana on the Famfrit Server is both quick and professional in opening a ticket for me and handling it. I want to give a special kudos and a thank you for the customer service. It's nice to know that when a game that is suppose to be fun, goes a little sour because of a few rotten apples, we have administration like his/hers to step in and help us players to enjoy the game and get back into the spirit of Eaorzea. Thank you again.

Best Regards,
Kluya Aether
Vice President|Shinra Inc [S.E.C.]

[DoctorPepper]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the way to speedrun AK at launch was to sac pull.

As to the rest of your point, sure, if you only need a few hundred duty roulette is the way to go. If you need, say, a few thousand, you've always been better off farming a dungeon.

No, that's absolutely right about sac pulling but the thing about CM was that it gave 100 philosophy when AK only gave 50. A good CM group could complete the dungeon in 10-15 minutes, the same amount of time that a good AK run would take. WP was argueably better because a good speed run took around 7-10 minutes. The demon wall was also a major barrier for a lot of players back at launch mainly due to the adds and people getting knocked off while trying to deal with them.

[Nutz]

I'll agree with majority rules when the majority isn't being a ****. >_>

You're essentially saying that you won't agree with the majority rule unless you're in the majority.

Everyone knows that the spirit of the bonus is to have veterans help new players through these instances (and really just to supply bodies since otherwise almost nobody would bother). People will be people and it's not their fault that SE made it ridiculously easy to speedrun through (bizarrely these instances don't even have ilevel synch -- not that it would slow people down much) and get their bonus sooner. Maybe they could have made it stricter and allow the new player(s) set the pace, but then you can easily get into the territory of a single player holding a run hostage. Given how much people troll already that's not something anybody would want to allow.

SE clearly noted the problem and has dealt with it on content since then (and presumably won't make the same mistake again). I don't think CM or Praetorium could have been restructured since so many cut scenes happen in the middle of the run so it just sits there like that annoying everyone. To say it's the impatient player's fault is the same as saying it's nobody's fault. You can't change human behavior or expect people to not play in a way that benefits themselves (even if it's seen as detrimental to others), especially if it's clearly allowed. SE designed those instances poorly and it seems like they'll just be a stain on everyone's experience forever.

On a related note, however, it would be nice if SE ever implemented that idea they had for running dungeons solo (with some NPCs or what have you). Creating a slightly altered 'story' version of CM and Praetorium that you went through solo with NPCs instead of a team of overgeared steamrollers to experience the story might resolve these issues.

[Caraway]

Who made you the authority on who's worth more than whom in a game? My time is my own, if I decide I want to spend 10 minutes or 100 minutes helping someone, then it's my choice to do so. You telling me that my time isn't worth as much as someone else's because they are new and I am not, is frankly a stupid way to look at this. Tell me, who's the selfish person in this scenario: Person A is reading a book, his bus arrives, and 7 others get on, person A then says "hey driver, don't drive off until I finish this chapter". Or is it the 7 other people sat on the bus, who want the driver to go about his route and not wait for that 1 person? If you answered the 7 people, you sir, have serious issues.

Except, as someone below mentions... You agreed to the requirements when you selected the roulette. It spells it out pretty explicitely what the time requirements/limits are. If you can't put that much time aside potentially you shouldn't be queueing.

And the reason I feel that a person's 1st time is worth more than someone's Nth time is because it is the 1st. You only get one 1st time. You only get one first impression. I would love to see SE's exit numbers to see how many people leave after their first brush with the loud, unpleasant minority of the end-game community. This kind of attitude bleeds players and it hurts the game's longevity.

Considering the 7 other people decided at wait a bus stop marked "Slow Bus Line for Readers", it would be the 7 people. Here's a very simple premise. If you don't want to wait for the new players to watch their cutscenes, DON'T QUEUE FOR THE MAIN STORY ROULETTE. Anyone who does, and then belittles those who want to watch their cutscenes AND participate in the fights are just trolls and d-bags.

Exactly this.

Precisely what Darra said. I have had many instances where I don't have much time to play and someone insists that an entire group of people who are just to help them clear (their words) is expected to also wait for them to watch often very long cut-scenes. In my case, nobody needs anything in that instance, 7 other people took time out of their day to help them clear, and they expect more time to be spent when they can just as simply go to the Inn. I am not saying this as someone who has had the luxury of watching cut-scenes, because I skip every one of them (except on the first day of release since everyone else watches as well). I don't like to make other people spend more of their time on me unnecessarily. I don't look at them as being jerks for wanting to get through something, I just understand that at the end of the day, when you're level 50 and almost literally have to run these things over and over just to get the gear that you want, waiting every time isn't always an option. You're playing with other people and their accumulative time, so just as you expect them to respect your desire to watch cut-scenes and take part in fights, they expect you to respect their time and ability to get you through the instance in an efficient way.

If you don't have the time then why are you queueing for something that could take that much time? Never ever expect a flawless clear from Duty Finder. Always expect the worst, expect the most time to be taken up. Expect new people. Expect cutscenes to be watched. You'll then be pleasantly surprised when your run goes faster.

Apparently this is quite the hotly contested topic. I'm glad to find so many people who support my feelings in this (and I even understand those who feel differently a little better). My faith has been renewed somewhat, and I will try out each of your suggestions when I retry the second dungeon tonight. Maybe I'll even redo the first one so I can try and participate in the boss fights.

It has, yeah. Right since launch. It does seem to have gotten better though. Less people yell since the bonuses for being with new people have been added.

The same argument could be made against new people using a player roulette and expecting that the majority would cater to them And harassing the majority even though they are in the right...

Except that the game explicitly comes out and tells you to use the Duty Finder to do the quest.

Obviously there are points on either side of the fence about whether people should wait or if people should watch the cutscenes in the inn/PF it. And it's not something we'll ever come to an agreement on because it all comes down to what you consider important.

At this point in time though it's pretty clear that if you're really concerned about it and worried you should put up a Party Finder. Thankfully there are more people in server who'll help and be happy to. Ultimately though; people should not be jerks regardless of the differences of opinion. It's one thing to feel that people should watch the cutscenes later... It's an entirely other one to swear and curse and call people names for it.

[Yukiko]

Sorry, but on one hand you doing DF for the daily bonus and you like it when there is first time bonus too, but on the other hand you just like to speedrun it and get over it because you did the dungeon 1000+ times and cant really see it any more... I understand you, but still, then do not do the daily bonus if you dont like to wait for "others" or do it with your friends in your own group... So thats where SE made the mistake to not allow premade groups - it was intended to HELP others who cant find a group and revive old content... the players just taken it as bonus stone farming which was not ment to be!

[TheRogueX]

Try to think of it from their point of view. If you already know what happens in the cutscenes and you've done the dungeon like 50 times, do you want to be forced to stand there for 40 minutes doing absolutely nothing because one player wants to watch the cutscenes?

I don't feel "forced" to wait for someone new to enjoy the content. That's the view of the impatient and uncaring who are just in it for their tomes.

Tell me, who's the selfish person in this scenario: Person A is reading a book, his bus arrives, and 7 others get on, person A then says "hey driver, don't drive off until I finish this chapter". Or is it the 7 other people sat on the bus, who want the driver to go about his route and not wait for that 1 person? If you answered the 7 people, you sir, have serious issues.

LOL. Flawed analogy is flawed. No one ever got on that bus for the first time specifically to read the last chapter of that specific book. Not "Person A" nor any of the other 7 people.

A better analogy would be this: Movie Theater A is playing Movies A-C of a triology, and wants to have the theater filled for a "full experience" after the first playing of each so that no one is in an empty theater. They offer lots and lots of gift certificates every day so that people will return to watch a random movie.

People returning get tired of watching the movie, but feel obligated and entitled to the gift certificates, so they complain that they can't just fast forward through the slow, non-action-packed parts of the movie. The movie theater caves and gives them a way to fast forward through 90% of each film. So they do, and they bitch at the people who are there trying to watch the whole movie the first time, saying "Just watch it on Netflix at home later."

[Rubicon]

It's unfortunate but look at it this way, if it wasn't for the "obscure currency" (they were probably farming light) then would there have been enough people to queue for the trial at all? Would you have waited 2 hours or more for a group?

I don't blame you in the slightest and I have had several several very nice and compliant groups with new people so it's out there. Something you may want to do for future trials is start a Party Finder group. Put on the PF that you want to watch cutscenes and slow and easy play.

[Duuude007]

the players just taken it as bonus stone farming which was not ment to be!

I know players who have no interest in tomes, they spam it for the card. Are they wrong for wanting to clear as many times per hour as possible?

Majority rules is the only truly fair compromise. If either side of the vote disagrees, I suggest PF as an alternative.

Nobody deserves special treatment.