Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

[Aeyis]

There is a significant difference between killing monsters, Garleans, Primals, Beastmen and corrupt people out in the wild and killing groups of guards in town who to the general populace are just doing their jobs.

Yes. That difference is that Beastmen typically fight to defend their own lands, Garleans are simply people with a different point of view on things. Primals are those that answered a desperate call for help (someone would define that an aspect of a hero).

These are different from the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves. Because the others really just fight to defend their way of living, yet we kill them all mercilessly and think nothing of it.


But when we are to kill Corrupt Brass Blades and corrupt Crystal Braves (for all purposes criminals without remorse), it suddenly puts a bad light on us?
In case you havent noticed, all of them are not doing their job.

You have peculiar values.

I'm honestly still baffled as to why it is so difficult for the many people in this thread to understand the ramifications of their actions had they fought back or taken out some of the Monetarists themselves. Anyone could figure out that this was a losing battle from the start

So because its a losing battle you decide to make the worst choice because it doesnt matter anyway? Ramifications? BS. As others have explained had Lolirito had the WoL and the rest of the scions confined you would have only given him better means to control the situation.


However it was not a losing battle. You simply took the actions that made it one.

Without Moenbryda's research, we wouldn't have been able to kill that Ascian.

Thus, we can conclude that the WoL can be compared to Minfilia in terms of powers, but in terms of strength - we're probably just stronger than a lot of people.

I think you might have missed the part where he died and became incorporeal. This happens right after the WoL losses Blessing of Light, ironically.
Which means the WoL had considerable combat prowess even without it.

*sighs* you really believe our character alone can face a whole army? seriously?

even in the dragon and primal fight we was never alone! the scion by themself are not as strong as us. indeed they have some flashy movement... but nothing much. other point, our goal is the peace and protection of eorzea.... going around killing eorzean in uldah... is maybe not the best move. without forget, we don't know if all the soldier are part of the plot, some npc talk seems to say the inverse. since they wasn't able to arrest us, they are in a tight spot.... they can't openly arrest us and say: "they have killed Nanamo a few day ago".

seriously the situation as it stand have become a total mess even for the traitor. i'm sure if they had them way we will have been executed swiftly after everybody was arrested. but now that we did flee and alive, they can't really act without create a situation extreme.

**sigh** (<- that is me making an overly exaggerated sound as well)
Do you even know a thing or two about armies and combat, seriously?
You are aware you are on top of a promenade inside of a large city right? You can't just walk an army into a city and have it fight effectively.
It would turn into a pitched battle. Thats because there isnt a lot of space to move an army, let alone have it fight.


In pitched battles the side with the most endurance and the best individual units tends to win.
And hey, would you know that their 'units' happend to be level 35 brass blades and your 'units', highly elite combaters.
As far as endurance goes well, they had a means to escape. Which they used. So endurance would not be an issue.

Actually lorewise you were alone when fighting the primals. (most of them, you had help with leviathan) There were others fighting elsewhere to give you a hand, but you still faced the primals themselves alone.

going around killing eorzean in uldah

According to my achievements I've already killed a few thousand. I don't think a dozen or two-three of corrupt guards serving the one that killed the peoples beloved leader, would really have much of a negative impact.

seriously the situation as it stand have become a total mess even for the traitor. i'm sure if they had them way we will have been executed swiftly after everybody was arrested. but now that we did flee and alive, they can't really act without create a situation extreme.

They just killed the original leader of Ul'dah, seized full control over the city and killed or imprisoned nearly all of the scions.
You dont consider that an extreme situation?

[AdamFyi]

And what is your point? Just because he was gaoled and broken out immediately doesn't mean he isn't still the official leader of the Crystal Braves and perfectly capable of confirming that THEY are the traitors, and not the WoL if they had cut some of them down.

Refer to:

Not a lot of people know about the Crystal Braves turning against the Scions as it all happened in private, so they'll just assume you turned traitor and kill some of your own. Welp.

Then refer to:

"Needless to say, I did not think his imprisonment justified."

Not saying that events would be completely different - just that the credibility of Alphinaud drops just because you decided to murder a few people. If you took a look around and talked to some of the NPCs scattered around the world after finishing the 2.55 questline, you'll find out that some of them genuinely do not think of you as guilty and that some of them are just doing their job. What do you suppose would happen if say, during your killing spree that you end up murdering innocent Brass Blades/Crystal Braves that didn't know better?

I'm not against having choices in the cutscenes, but for this particular event, I really do not see how murdering people would help you in the least in that situation. You're making yourself look bad by murdering people. At the same time, because you are pretty close to Alphinaud, his credibility would possibly drop because of your decision to resist. Same with the Scions.

---

Pretty sure that Ascians being hard to kill is more based on their biology than our power. Remember that Ascians are basically ghosts that possess humans and cannot be killed be conventional means. Just because we couldn't kill him normally doesn't make us weak.

But my question is, does the strength of an Ascian depend on the body they possess? Or does possessing a mortal body grant it supernatural powers? I'm kinda curious. Was it ever explained?

[Sushikins]

You're viewing it too generalized. We're protecting Eorzea, yes they're all doing their jobs, but they're also trying to harm the people we're trying to protect. Beastmen? With a few exceptions they kill people on sight, even if it is to defend their land, to the people of Eorzea they're a menace, even when the Beastmen have a legitimate reason to fight. Garleans are trying to take our land and subjugate our people. Primals temper people and turn them into mindless slaves, and even when not, their very existence puts Eorzea in danger, so even when they're not evil or against us we have to put them down. The turncoat soldiers may be no better, but unlike the above examples, to the people we're protecting they're protecting Eorzea as well, not threatening their lives.



The people betraying us have already shown the ability to cover up events, if you go slaying the brass blades and crystal braves attempting to apprehend/kill you, it just gives them more ammo to use against you. As of now people have heard that you were apparently behind an attempt on the Sultana's life, which isn't a whole lot to go on to turn against you. But if they came out and proved that you also killed many soldiers during your escape, soldiers simply trying to protect the Sultana and the City, soldiers who may have families, then suddenly you're not looking anywhere near as good. The people we're fighting against are great at manipulation, especially the common populace, but because they have to hide the Sultana's death and the great amount of respect people have for you, they've had little luck in turning the populace against you, and it would even work against them at this point if they did try and arrest you in broad daylight.

[FrejyaAthenes]

But my question is, does the strength of an Ascian depend on the body they possess? Or does possessing a mortal body grant it supernatural powers? I'm kinda curious. Was it ever explained?

My answer is: Not sure. I think a body just allows it to affect the material plane and the power's all them, otherwise Lahabrea would've found some depressed mage to possess rather than Thancred who has no magical ability.

[AdamFyi]

My answer is: Not sure. I think a body just allows it to affect the material plane and the power's all them, otherwise Lahabrea would've found some depressed mage to possess rather than Thancred who has no magical ability.

What about the endurance? I mean, say an Ascian chooses the body of a fragile scholar. Would the body be technically 'easier' to kill? I do hope they can explain all this Ascian stuff in Heavensward. I can't wait! The hype is real! Ahhhh! D:

[Aeyis]

You're viewing it too generalized. We're protecting Eorzea, yes they're all doing their jobs, but they're also trying to harm the people we're trying to protect. Beastmen? With a few exceptions they kill people on sight, even if it is to defend their land

The did not used to. In fact even in the MSQ Scions will often refer to the fact that it wasnt the beastmen that attacked first.

Primals temper people and turn them into mindless slaves, and even when not, their very existence puts Eorzea in danger, so even when they're not evil or against us we have to put them down.

In the same breath that you call the Garleans oppressors, seriously?
Because this is exactly the Garlean way of thinking.
You are aware that Hydaelyn also qualifies as a primal right? Yeah, the WoL (your character) is serving one. Do you know why the WoL is immune to tempering?
''You already serve another god'' taking from the games dialogue.

The turncoat soldiers may be no better, but unlike the above examples, to the people we're protecting they're protecting Eorzea as well, not threatening their lives.

As I explained they are not the same, they are worse.

As of now people have heard that you were apparently behind an attempt on the Sultana's life, which isn't a whole lot to go on to turn against you.

You presume a lot that isnt stated in the game. Even the Sultanasworn dont seem to know Nanamo died. In fact, noone actually does at the point that its relevant.
The WoL could have fought back and captured/killed the people that saw Nanamo dead. Which was only a syndicate member, some brass blades, and the lady in waiting. With the WoL's influence it would have been easy to convince others that they killed Nanamo.
In fact, the only thing they even had when you were inside of that room was their word against the WoL's. And the WoL's word carries far more weight.

But if they came out and proved that you also killed many soldiers during your escape, soldiers simply trying to protect the Sultana and the City, soldiers who may have families, then suddenly you're not looking anywhere near as good.

Dont make them into good guys now. These are guys that willingly betrayed the saviors of the realm. There is not a single none corrupt Crystal Brave that would fight the WoL.


Just trying to protect people? Have you already forgotten the Crystal Braves that got brutally murdered to silence them?
I have no absolutely no idea where you get the ''good people trying to do their job'' from. The game and dialogue itself make explicit mention of Seizing power via Corrupt Brass Blades and Corrupt Crystal Braves.

[AdamFyi]

Do you know why the WoL is immune to tempering?
''You already serve another god'' taking from the games dialogue.

Actually, it was the Echo that made us immune to tempering.

The WoL could have fought back and captured/killed the people that saw Nanamo dead. Which was only a syndicate member, some brass blades, and the lady in waiting. With the WoL's influence it would have been easy to convince others that they killed Nanamo.

No amount of influence will save you from being gaoled by the other members of the Syndicate. You decided to murder one of their members. To add on that, you are on their land. The Syndicate has power over Ul'dah the moment Nanamo drank that poison.

These are guys that willingly betrayed the saviors of the realm. There is not a single none corrupt Crystal Brave that would fight the WoL.

Except, we don't even know what would happen if you decide to murder the guards that came to apprehend you. Resisting would be an admittance of guilt. Murdering would just reinforce that guilt and make you suspicious as hell. Remember also that only the WoL and only one other member of the Crystal Braves were privy to the information about the corrupt Crystal Braves. Not even Alphinaud knew about it at the time. Any innocent Crystal Braves would just act on orders given that you turned traitor from their perspective.

[RichardButte]

I knew my character was a soulless puppet when it was established that

...the lord of the dragons was following us around and LISTENING to everything we're privy to, but our character doesn't take a moment to actually tell anyone that the very enemy we're trying to outwit is listening to this very conversation.

[ElHeggunte]

Except, we don't even know what would happen if you decide to murder the guards that came to apprehend you. Resisting would be an admittance of guilt. Murdering would just reinforce that guilt and make you suspicious as hell. Remember also that only the WoL and only one other member of the Crystal Braves were privy to the information about the corrupt Crystal Braves. Not even Alphinaud knew about it at the time. Any innocent Crystal Braves would just act on orders given that you turned traitor from their perspective.

We know what would have happened: you wouldn't have been captured like a scrub. I see several people trying to argue this point, but did you miss how they're trying to frame you? The Syndicate has a lot of sway and they're clearly not above planting evidence and lying so you're "guilty" whether you resist arrest or not. Since you're guilty anyway you may as well evade arrest until you can clear your name. Also, considering the length of time the entire coupe had been planned and the way it even played out, it heavily implies that all of the Blades and Braves present were on the take anyway so it's unlikely you'd be cutting down someone innocently doing their job.

[Natsuno]

There are alternatives to killing the oposition. Incapacitate/restrain/evade. IF the whole thing was setup meticulous over a long period of time, then I dare say the syndicate would be doing what the Crystal Braves were. Weeding out and disposing of any weak links. I would find it hard to believe that any WoL sympathizing Brass Blades would of been on duty at any point during the festivities. The syndicate just wouldn't of wanted that risk.

They could of played it so Middy talked to us at the crime scene for the sake of narration, stating the obvious that it's a setup, and mocks the prospect of a fair trial, and the prospect of the fabled WoLs tale ending in such a fashion. We evade capture for a time, jump into the conveniently unguarded lift, only to have t̶h̶e̶ ̶T̶u̶r̶k̶s̶ Crystal Braves/Brass Blades bundle in on us at the next floor. We're thrown on the floor at the party, and the story continues. But that's just woulda/shoulda/coulda at this point.