Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

**Kallera** · 04-06-2015 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

I think the main issue is that, over the course of the story, we learn that the WoL isn't exactly us, but another character whose appearance/class we can alter while their personality is seperate from us. The problem being...we're not playing a very interesting character.

It is also a change in storytelling to the various points in the story where the player can choose their character's response to people addressing them. Even if the overall outcome remains the same; a situation in which a lot of us would take differently is either skipped or glossed over with another's responses.

**Erudain** · 04-07-2015 04:09 AM

The big issue with the ending is the ammount of plot holes it has, going from stupid & no logic decisions to deux ex machina for the plot to play out.
Regretfully SE took the worst possible route for the whole apprehended/fleeing scenes.

There were several other options to reach the same outcome without having the PC looking like an useless tool.
Like having both the Sultana and the PC drink the poison, Nanamo is killed but since you're the WoL the posion dose is not enough to kill you but leaves you severely weakened. Then you have a valid argument of how they detain you and why the rest of the Scions have to sacrifice so you can escape in that weakened state.

Other option like lots have told was having Minfilia be the one in the Sultana room, and the PC at the main party, then Teledji arrives with Minfilia and Alphinaud acussing them of treason + regicide, swords at their necks and the PC has a valid reason not to fight back. Raubahn goes berserk and you manage to free Minfilia, Alphinaud and make a run.

My personal favourite, I would had made a big Red Wedding, everyone in the party, PC & Nanamo too, Crystal Braves traitors enter the room, arrows pointing, swords in the neck of every scion/you....they kill Nanamo right there, Raubahn goes mad and gives you and the Scions the chance to break free.....after that and since the soldiers were Crytal Braves, Lolorito can still call the Scions traitors.

And finally the "not figthing back was the right thing to do so you can prove your innocence" argument only works in hindsight, the PC has no way to know at that point that he's going to be able to escape minutes later.
If you're arrested and trialed, who is going to make the trial? the same people who framed you in the first place, what kind of justice or innocence could you prove?...yeah, go ask Ned Stark.....I take my chances figthing my way out and escaping and then worry about clearing my name.

**FrejyaAthenes** · 04-07-2015 04:36 AM

What bugs me most about the whole thing is that I don't get why the WoL/Scions were chosen as scapegoats. They'd have literally zero motive to kill the Sultana especially with the timing. Ul'Dah goes the extra mile to give us support in helping Ishgard and then we poison their leader. Why? They never even attempt to half-ass a story. They just point and go "They did it" like an elementary schooler trying to shift the blame.

**Nagrom** · 04-07-2015 05:06 AM

The reason for Ul'dah being the setting with the scions and yourself being the scapegoats would be explained if all of this is a revenge plot from a villain who was most hurt by this group of people in the past.

The fact that Thancred's time as an ascian is brought out along with Minfilia's echo as proof of our collective guilt, the question has to be asked how any of this would be known? The only people who knew both of those things died during operation Archon when foiling Gaius van Baelsar's bid for power during the time when it was in doubt who would wear the imperial crown. While it's possible a spy was able to inform on the echo from inside one of the city states, the only people who knew Lahabrea was Thancred were only scions and the imperials present.

Gaius van Baelsar was trying to conquer Eorzea for himself as his bid for why he should be crowned when the emperor died. It's stated in the story that cause of these actions none of the generals could return home if they failed, cause this operation was without the blessing of the imperial government. Which is why Nero is wandering around dressed as a vagabond alchemist instead of going back to Garlemald. Our actions were not so much a defeat of the Empire, but us stomping on the dreams of a general who saw himself as a future leader of his nation, if not a nation of his own. However we would have noticed if Darth Black Wolf was in in the back sneaking cheese cubes and glasses of wine. I think the thing to notice is the motion Ilberd uses right before he throws that energy wave from his sword, it's the idle animation Gaius van Baelsar takes when you fight him. The attack itself is just a single slash version of his X slash he uses after teleporting.

If any of that is in the ballpark then the real question is not why, but what the endgame goal of all this is. Is it the continuation of a bid for personal power, or is it a bid to return to the empire a "war hero" when he hands ul'dah over on a platter?

**Aeyis** · 04-07-2015 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Nagrom

snip

Thancreds past wasnt brought up by them. Thats simply what he thought it was about initially.

**Wizarus** · 04-07-2015 06:46 AM

The lack consistency is pretty jarring. How do we go from canonically soloing Primals to being fodderized by low-tier Brass Blades? These aren't the experly trained Immortal Flames, no, no, these are standard hired thugs that Thancred apparently casually soloed, evident to his complete lack of injury when reuinited with him. And the Blessing of Light being taken away shouldn't have nerfed us that much, considering Big Daddy Dragon said it amounted to practically nothing anyway. Meanwhile Raubhann and Illberd pulling these CANON superhuman feats out of their asses.

So Illberd >= Raubhann > Thancred(and probably all the other scion save for useless Minfillia) >>>>> MC? It looks like a retcon more than actually making things realistic.

**Jacost** · 04-07-2015 07:28 AM

The WoL probably could have beaten them if he'd fought. It's been brought up that he didn't have his weapon at the time, but I think it's more likely that his consistent characterization as an Extreme Doormat simply rears it's face here. It's what Midgardsormr criticised about us, Rowena said he needs to learn to say "no" right at the start of the 2.55 quest chain, this is a character trait of the WoL. They said "come with us", you nodded and did as you were told.

Not what you would have done? That's immaterial; The WoL apparently is SE's character, not ours. Not resisting arrest isn't out of character for Mr. Smile-And-Nod.

**Natsuno** · 04-07-2015 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Jacost

Mr. Smile-And-Nod.

Urgh. I tried to forget that they even had another character say "Go on, smile and nod like you usualy do" or something very similar to the WoL. I know it was probably meant as a joke, but still...

**Kallera** · 04-07-2015 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Jacost

Not what you would have done? That's immaterial; The WoL apparently is SE's character, not ours. Not resisting arrest isn't out of character for Mr. Smile-And-Nod.

Yoshida has stated in prior interviews that in ffxiv, we are playing our own characters, and not a preexisting character set by SE like Cloud or Lightning.

Otherwise we would have no say ever in how our character acts and responds and they might as well be voiced and characterized with a past and such.

But since we have our own characters, even if there is still a plot, we have our own involvement, with different adventurers that come from all walks of life.

And that's good, because it provides investment in our characters and the story they are in.

**Dererk** · 04-07-2015 08:11 AM

While I do like how it ended I do think Erudain ideas would have made it a bit more interesting some at lest.

Like that we drank the wine too but would make more since that we lived not because wer the WOL but because we built up a friking strong immunity from all the crap we end up getting hit with already but still effected us enough to weaken us.

Thread: Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

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