Are Paladins even worth it?

[Nyalia]

If you have solid aggro as a PLD, can't you just not use TP for a while to regenerate it? If you aren't in a timed burn phase, your DPS isn't contributing THAT much. Just do an RoH combo once every 20 seconds for the debuff. That's 190 TP per 20 seconds when you get 60 TP per 3 seconds for a gain of 210 TP per 20 seconds. If you really want to keep doing some DPS, you can just swap to sword oath during that too. Once you hit ~700 TP, you can go back to the full rotation.

But, if the boss's primary attack is int-based, your debuff doesn't even help, so you can just autoattack until you have TP back.

Shield Swipe's only purpose is extra DPS in long boss fights where the boss uses physical attacks. It's extremely niche, since Pacification doesn't have a purpose late game, and it doesn't have an enmity multiplier like Savage Blade and Rage of Halone.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

If you stop DPSing when you have solid aggro you're playing PLD sub optimally. Bulwark+Shield Swipe if you really don't need to be generating enmity right now is a perfectly viable way to get yourself back plenty of TP if you've got it timed right.

The other option is to give your healers more breathing room by casting Stoneskin on yourself a few times, and then they could be doing more damage during that time, but literally standing there doing nothing helps no one and makes the fight last longer (even if only a couple seconds or so longer)

Yes, PLD in Tank stance does the worst damage in the game, but that is not an excuse to push what damage you can do to it's limit.

[Nyalia]

Oh yeah, I knew I was forgetting something. Stoneskinning yourself, or other party members if your party is keeping you stoneskinned, is not a bad idea. But you do have to time it right. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't block, dodge, or parry while casting Stoneskin, so you take increased damage during it. But you can cast it between boss abilities and just soak a couple auto attacks during the cast, and it's worth it.

But there is no difference between slowing yourself down a bit to regen TP and not using skills at all for 15 seconds at a stretch to regen TP. Either way, you wind up using the same number of skills over the same period of time expending the same total TP. One way is just more burst and the other is more spread out. Burst is generally better during burn phases, and both are equal apart from that.

[Feylie]

You 100% Sword Oath 13? Probably pushing 3 Ahk morns? (all buffs on first, WAR HG 2nd, PLD HG 3rd?)

^ correct.

[TheElementOf]

Not quite sure if I'm grasping the reasons people want the GCD off of shield bash, or the latter of if it will annihilate paladins TP to nothing very quickly.

I do understand these key points.

• GCD causes late to the punch stuns.

• TP costs are high, eats up if used consistently.

Taking a look at both tanks stuns;

Shield Bash; GCD, potency 110, 6 second stun upgraded
Brutal Swings; 20 second CD, potency 50, 5 second stun upgraded

If we were to remove the GCD of shield bash, what exactly would happen... Would it cause for a major TP drop as then paladins would be spamming it in the GCD along with circle of scorn and spirits within? Or would it be situational as an "OH S-" button for boss and mob mechanics?

If my understanding on development of the moves such as Shield Bash on Paladin being on the GCD, and Warrior having Brutal Swings off the GCD.

/post over the 1000 char limit (following post will be the rest of my spiel)

[TheElementOf]

In the standpoint of loloutofTP, we are wrong in the sort.. Requirements of anything off the GCD must have a cooldown (15 seconds, 20 seconds, etc) Buffs, debuffs, and even stuns.
It would place it in a way such that it'd be a Brutal Swings clone.

No TP cost, potency low as between 50 and 65, and the stun ranging at 5 or 6 seconds, at a 20 second CD

That is all it would really boil down to if it were off the GCD, mechanics in development of these moves primarily suit both tanks justifications of on GCD or having a CD.

[SpookyGhost]

Shield Swipe != Shield Bash

Unless there's some discussion about Shield Bash I missed.

[TheElementOf]

Oops, lol I think I may have misinterpreted first post on page two. My bad.

</total scrub

Footnote Editz: Though isn't this topic about Paladin in general?

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

The only time Shield Bash is late to the punch is when you're not anticipating an attack coming. Everything in this game is pretty much 100% scripted, so it's clear when you should be using it. Paladin Stun is one of the best in the game because instead of having to wait 5 GCDs abouts to use it again, Paladins are primed to go right away, allowing them to chain stun.

Never underestimate the value in that.

As for Shield Swipe being off GCD, as I explained earlier it's more for TP efficient/regain of TP. It's point is to do damage while trying to get some of your TP back so you can 1-2-3 more. Everything about PLD is working to facilitate that you're up doing that 1-2-3.

It's the same for Warrior, they just have all of those Wrath Stacks they need to use up as a resource and buffs/debuffs that need applying

[SirTaint]

^ correct.

That's a beautiful thing. My only concern would be the twist+breath combo after each earthshaker but pushing 3 Ahk morns really frees up CDs.

I'm gonna do it next raid day and see how it goes. Whats your gear setup for T13?