Community Effort: NIN and Mudra System

[Reokudo]

WTFast helped me with my mudra lag ever so slightly. But it would be better not having to rely on it just for that alone.

[Velhart]

But you can do that now. Either with in-game macros or gaming keyboard macros. It isn't a good enough reason, imo, not to do it.

Not true in efficiency terms. The mudras right now ultimately get submitted to SE's servers and back to us. So making macros, the process is still going to SE, actually even slower since it is reading the macro lines, which is why no one macros mudras. The same for programmable keyboards. The keyboard will not recognize the 0.5sec cool down programmed to it when mudra lags or has a delay, not making it a reliable feature to use. Right now, the best way to performing mudra is manually as SE intended.

If it was client side, it simply is a program that if you hit the combination of buttons, it only makes the ninjitsu appear, and only the ninjitsu ability itself is inputted into SE's servers. So someone can easily make a 3rd party button that already has the ninjitsu ability unlocked, completely taking away the need to make mudra combinations. I'm not saying there is not a solution to prevent this, but making mudra client side definitely has it's share of problems.

[DoctorPepper]

I agree with this thread, mudra lag has gone on long enough. It makes the whole job less fun than it should be and needs to be addressed asap. I love my ninja but I would love it a lot more if mudras always casted instantly like they're supposed to, not just 1/10 times.

[Edellis]

As much as i'd like to see this fixed, i'm sure the compromise to fix it would involve Ninja being less fun to play at the end of the day. If Ninjutsu were cast through simply glorified animations after i chose the skill i wanted, i would have never started playing ninja in the first place.

I doubt they will allow the mudra to be cast client-side without the server checking first. Client-side anything is subject to exploits.

[Callinon]

Not true in efficiency terms. The mudras right now ultimately get submitted to SE's servers and back to us. So making macros, the process is still going to SE, actually even slower since it is reading the macro lines, which is why no one macros mudras. The same for programmable keyboards. The keyboard will not recognize the 0.5sec cool down programmed to it when mudra lags or has a delay, not making it a reliable feature to use. Right now, the best way to performing mudra is manually as SE intended.

If it was client side, it simply is a program that if you hit the combination of buttons, it only makes the ninjitsu appear, and only the ninjitsu ability itself is inputted into SE's servers. So someone can easily make a 3rd party button that already has the ninjitsu ability unlocked, completely taking away the need to make mudra combinations. I'm not saying there is not a solution to prevent this, but making mudra client side definitely has it's share of problems.

I see what you're saying and you're not wrong. I'm just not sure I care.

The possibility that someone will find a way to exploit the system to do their ninjutsu really fast is extremely minor when compared to maintaining a design we know to be flawed. Mr. Ninja McJazzhands here would still be subject to the 20 second cooldown, so it's not like this lets him do something really degenerate. And if the client won't accept inputs any faster than, let's say, every 0.1 seconds? It's still nearly half a second for each ninjutsu which is perfectly reasonable for a normal person with normal non-jazz hands.

[DoctorPepper]

I see what you're saying and you're not wrong. I'm just not sure I care.

The possibility that someone will find a way to exploit the system to do their ninjutsu really fast is extremely minor when compared to maintaining a design we know to be flawed. Mr. Ninja McJazzhands here would still be subject to the 20 second cooldown, so it's not like this lets him do something really degenerate. And if the client won't accept inputs any faster than, let's say, every 0.1 seconds? It's still nearly half a second for each ninjutsu which is perfectly reasonable for a normal person with normal non-jazz hands.

I have to agree, I really don't see how they can exploit the system with the 20 second ninjutsu cooldown in place. You're supposed to be able to cast ninjutsu in 1-1.5 seconds anyways which is less than the global cooldown but with the lag you're looking at going past the global cooldown time which cuts into your dps and if you happen to lag worse than normal, can screw up your entire rotation if the wrong ninjutsu goes off.

Ninja doesn't have a lot of off global cooldown abilities so I really don't see why it would be a big deal even if somebody was able to make it faster than normal with hacks.

[Velhart]

I see what you're saying and you're not wrong. I'm just not sure I care.

The possibility that someone will find a way to exploit the system to do their ninjutsu really fast is extremely minor when compared to maintaining a design we know to be flawed. Mr. Ninja McJazzhands here would still be subject to the 20 second cooldown, so it's not like this lets him do something really degenerate. And if the client won't accept inputs any faster than, let's say, every 0.1 seconds? It's still nearly half a second for each ninjutsu which is perfectly reasonable for a normal person with normal non-jazz hands.

The problem isn't if we care. The problem is if SE cares, in which they do very much.

[Kitfox]

Mudras are badly designed because their 0.5 sec timer is way too short and makes them too easily affected by lag. Every other skill basically works on a 2.0-2.5 second GCD, so there's a lot more room for latency.

Mudras either need to be put on a longer cast timer or be allowed between GCDs to make NIN equally playable for more people. It doesn't make sense that you can deal with game mechanics on 200-300 ms latency but for this one class you'll need less than 50 ms delay to play optimally.

I really wanted to like NIN but I'm switching back to other melee classes cause I just can't be bothered to deal with mudras.

[Orrias]

Change your effort to: "Community effort for lower latency -- Petition for EU located data centres",

It'll remove all the subjective banter going on in this thread, and you'll have addressed the fundamental issue.

Also, it'll be more perspicacious to petition for EU data centres as it'll put a stop to any current latency issues (e.g. dodging AoEs, mudra lag, getting x2 oGCD abilities into 2.5 sec GCD, etc.), as well as any future pitfalls concerning latency.

[Edellis]

Let's just keep Mudras as they are, stick them on the GCD, and buff ninjutsu accordingly.

No? Well i tried. 800 Potency Raiton sounds cool to me though.