Community Effort: NIN and Mudra System

[Ephier]

After Live Letter XVIII, NINs were told that the mudra lag issue would be looked into, link is posted below, this never was addressed again. My fear is that they have either forgotten about the issue or are ignoring it. There have been several videos posted of people (particularly in Japan) having 0 mudra lag, while this is fine and dandy, there are also people reported that have less than 50 ping and still have issues with mudra lag. While I am not asking for an immediate fix, I just want to know the status of the issue, and the only way to get something like that is a group effort from the community. I know a lot of people will say "use wtfast, its free!" I have been usingthe paid wtfast since 2.1 and it does not fix the issue, it just alleviates the symptoms a bit. I love the NIN class, which is why I am so adamant about this issue. If DRG's can band together and get their class buffed, NIN's (there's a lot of you, I know it) can band together and get their main class action addressed.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2867614

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-seem-sluggish

Edit:Posted a question on the live letter thread in the hopes if it will not be addressed here, maybe we can get an update in the live letter.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2867614

[Fuma]

I experience this from time to time as well and would love to see it addressed. My other abilities have no issue but on occasion my mudras will be lagged throwing off my own timing and end up missing a skill or screwing my mudra thus getting "bunnied". If I had to give a percentage of how often I experience this I'd say between 15 and 20% of the time. This is occuring while I am using WTFast as well.

[AkashiXI]

I am for this as well. I personally only experience Mudra lag in Fcob, and I use Wtfast. I have heard from various console users that the mudra lag ruins the fluidity of Ninja's flow, reasonably so considering it's a pivotal tool for them. Please, Square, allow the action to be client side, and the activation server.

[Mardel]

I understand they wanted to make a unique system and "save buttons" because the current ninjitsu combinations save us (2-3 buttons?) chi, jin, ten, and ninjitsu vs katon, raiton, suiton, doton, huton, hyoton, and bunny. So in a way it was smart.

1. The easiest fix is to allow to do this in-between GCD and simply remove the bunny. This requires minimal effort... people with latency can still perform well and those with amazing connections can double weave easily.

A. I do not feel this is the method that should be used to correct the current issue at hand as latency can still cause some mudra issues. (Since it doesn't work like normal off GCD skills.)

2. The buttons for the 6 ninjitsu and bunny already exist. Just let us use them as a quick button which then your character quickly does the signs and uses the ninjitsu instead.

A. This answer removes the lag issue completely but will likely cause animation locking issues of some sorts.


Aside:
As much as I loved the concept of ninja I hate having to completely rely on optimal routing, wtfast, and server lag for optimal damage. In 3.0 I will not play ninja as a main class unless this is changed I'm doing DRG/MAC

[Judge_Xero]

SE PLZ FIX THIS - @ 20ms Ping - NIN is unplayable for me without the use of a VPN and almost unplayable in FCOB/some other instances.

Even if this is an ISP issue (route switching etc) which it's not in my case, the mudra system is dumb and should be client side. Especially when due to network + Animation, a 0.5s CD is 1.2s CD

[Velhart]

I still want to know how this made it past testing. It seems like this was only tested in their offices in Japan and not everywhere else. It is sad that a job exists that 2/3 of the people who play this game cannot play it efficiently. I already told myself quitting Ninja is guaranteed if SE does not rework the mudra system.

It is one thing SE if you are having difficulties finding out a solution, but don't give us a half-ass statement in the Live Letter and expect us to be okay with it. It has been months since you all slightly mentioned it and it has been a deciding factor for many players to not play the job after getting it to 50. At least communicate with us SE and give us a detailed reason why one of your job's mechanics is not working the way it should.

Just to note, without a VPN server, my latency is 25ms and at worst 40ms. The mudra delay/lag is still real without having a VPN server up and even sometimes does it with VPN up.

[Callinon]

I still want to know how this made it past testing. It seems like this was only tested in their offices in Japan and not everywhere else.

That's exactly how it gets past testing, and the reason why beta testing is a good thing that should be done.

Probably the best way to handle this is to remove the server from the ninjutsu entirely. The mudras themselves should be entirely handled by the client and then one packet containing the completed (or botched) ninjutsu is sent to the server.

So currently this is how it's handled:

Client executes: Ten
Send packet containing Ten
Server received Ten
Server responds and sends acknowledgment packet
Client registers: Ten

Client executes: Chi
Send packet containing Chi
Server received Chi
Server responds and sends acknowledgment packet
Client registers: Chi

Client executes: Ninjutsu
Send packet containing Ninjutsu
Server received Ninjutsu
Server responds and sends acknowledgment packet
Client registers: Raiton

Instead how about this:
Client executes: Ten
Client registers: Ten
Client executes: Chi
Client registers: Chi
Client executes: Ninjutsu
Send packet containing Raiton
Server received Raiton
Server responds and sends acknowledgment packet
Client registers: Raiton

One packet containing the completed ninjutsu (in this case Raiton) that only has to make one round trip instead of three. This allows the player to input their ninjutsu literally as fast as the client will allow them to without having to wait for the server to respond and without having to deal with network latency.

[Haibel]

The easiest way to fix the mudra lag is to get rid of them all together. Just give us the end skills tied to them and add the mudra animations to the skills to balance out time gained. I love playing nin, and don't usually have the lag issues, but it's a huge pain in the ass when it shows up. The whole little meta game of mudra input just seems unnecessary to me.

[Velhart]

snip

I completely agree that the mudra input should be client side. It does come with it's own complications however. The system can be easily exploited by players and can be used to cheat/take advantage of the job. You could easily make third party buttons that give you the ninjitsu already to cast instead of having to use the inputs. Which kind of brings it into the system should just be completely reworked or you can weave abilities in between.

I won't say I know the best solution, but SE really needs to make some major change to this job.

[Callinon]

I completely agree that the mudra input should be client side. It does come with it's own complications however. The system can be easily exploited by players and can be used to cheat/take advantage of the job. You could easily make third party buttons that give you the ninjitsu already to cast instead of having to use the inputs. Which kind of brings it into the system should just be completely reworked or you can weave abilities in between.

I won't say I know the best solution, but SE really needs to make some major change to this job.

But you can do that now. Either with in-game macros or gaming keyboard macros. It isn't a good enough reason, imo, not to do it.