Paladins oath stance it is long over due.

[Viridiana]

I like how this conversation always proceeds under the assumption that a job can't get two stun abilities, even though they clearly can.

[Kuwagami]

I like how this conversation always proceeds under the assumption that a job can't get two stun abilities, even though they clearly can.

Don't you dare proposing gameplay changes !! è_é

[Reynhart]

I like how this conversation always proceeds under the assumption that a job can't get two stun abilities, even though they clearly can.

This conversation proceeds on existing skills, since the OP think that there are existing flaws.

Do the tanks jobs have two existing stun abilities ?

[Viridiana]

This conversation proceeds on existing skills, since the OP think that there are existing flaws.

Do the tanks jobs have two existing stun abilities ?

Only because the OP is extremely impatient and doesn't want to wait for 3.0. With new skills in 3.0, there's no reason they couldn't introduce new stuns.

EDIT: Alternately, WHM got a new QoL ability. Why can't the tanks? Or, y'know, wait for 3.0 like sensible people.

[Reynhart]

Only because the OP is extremely impatient and doesn't want to wait for 3.0. With new skills in 3.0, there's no reason they couldn't introduce new stuns.

EDIT: Alternately, WHM got a new QoL ability. Why can't the tanks? Or, y'know, wait for 3.0 like sensible people.

Well...you see...in fact...the OP is not at all about Stun skills. It's just that the topic inevitably derailed on "Why my job is better than yours"

Stoneskin II doesn't change the flow of combat, just the downtime. Removing the oath from GCD would be a really huge improvement for PLD, especially if they also remove MP cost, since no skill "cost" both cooldown and ressources.

[LalaRu]

... Paladins can use stun infinitely

This apply for every instant skill (without long recast) almost every class have (see brd). You click on the button every time it is ready.

Think about on large pulls. If you have a good threat lead and are trying to help the healers, you can currently go down the list stunning each target once for basically free mitigation (assuming WHM isn't holying.)

It works only on the paper, but have no real world application.
Each stun have to wait GCD, and you cannot ever think to rotate your stun to all mobs in your pack without lose aggro, just at 4th mob 10s have passed and the brd/blm is now tanking all other mobs.

It may work for a group of two or three mobs, but they are not a threat when you are in trash cleaning duty.

And "mount enough aggro" first, does not apply, because in real situations, you are running for aggro against all classes from the start of the pull until the end. Cannot even think you can slack on aggro a whole 10s. Unless you talking about low level duties done with your i500 tank and i-1 dps.

[Viridiana]

Well...you see...in fact...the OP is not at all about Stun skills. It's just that the topic inevitably derailed on "Why my job is better than yours"

Blarg. Touché.

The WHM thing was more of a "if you must have instant gratification, here's some shaky logic for you."

[matt8107t]

I think the oaths on pld are fine. If there was one change to pld I would say non emnity attack so as not to rip hate off MT when slighty more geared.

[LalaRu]

Oh sheet, OP were about oaths...
I think they are fine as is. On tank swap situations I just "prepare" the correct one and lose the few seconds that may be used for dps, but my dps is really not needed for the fight, it is just a bonus but not required. Yes more dps always welcome but not my duty there and a failing dps check will hardly be my fault.

[Jandor]

My thoughts:

Oaths are fine.
Shield bash is fine.