Paladins oath stance it is long over due.

[Giantbane]

I'm all for taking the oaths off the GCD and prevent them from interrupting combos. I don't play PLD all that often, but I think it's a clunky implementation.

Don't NIN's venoms work this way right now?

[LalaRu]

Maybe did you forgot stun mounts resistance?

Maybe you did forget that we can stun adds in T5 far more than a WAR can before they build enough resistance.

Mate, I replied to a guy that asserted a PLD can stunlock indefinitely, and you use my words to come out with something totally different.

[Lemuria]

The real reason Shield Oath and Sword Oath are on the GCD is because they're spells. The reason they are spells is because SE realized that they gave us an MP regeneration tool (Riot Blade), but forgot to give us ways to use MP other than Flash and Stoneskin.

Maybe when they raise the level cap to 60 they can give Paladin a self-cure which isn't reliant on having high Mind to restore a decent sum. Maybe strength based, similar to Second Wind. It'll give us something else to use our MP on, and improve our survivability.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Maybe when they raise the level cap to 60 they can give Paladin a self-cure which isn't reliant on having high Mind to restore a decent sum. Maybe strength based, similar to Second Wind. It'll give us something else to use our MP on, and improve our survivability.

I'd expect something more Vit Based.

[Selli]

I'd personally like to see PLD's stun be an OGCD. The WAR's stun is OGCD (and I honestly think the cooldown is ridiculous), but I am embarrassed to admit how many times I have failed to stun when I play my derpPLD (any melee/BLM who have run Lost City of Amdapor with me is crying right now, LOL).

[Eidolon]

My original post:

PLD can stunlock though. if they took it off the GCD, they\\'d have to add a 20 second CD to it.

That might make it require tactical sorting of stun in some fights. :3 but as long as PLD CAN stun infinitely it needs something to balance it out. The GCD is currently filling that role.

Mate, I replied to a guy that asserted a PLD can stunlock indefinitely, and you use my words to come out with something totally different.

I didn't actually see your original response, so I'll take amoment here:

Yes, you can stun a single target three times before the DR makes it immune for a time.

However, this doesn't change that Paladins can use stun infinitely

Think about on large pulls. If you have a good threat lead and are trying to help the healers, you can currently go down the list stunning each target once for basically free mitigation (assuming WHM isn't holying.) I used to do this while leveling paladin because, loathe though I am to admit it - I was squishy.

Now, from a balance perspective, being able to flash+stun constantly would be huge. If they keep the potency on it, it would be an increase to Paladins already superior DPS over Warriors. And they would still be able to stun infinitely.

Let's take levi-EX for example. Each add can be stunned three times. Why would you take a Warrior in this scenario? You'd be better off with double PLD's who can stun each add (The two that pop + the magic-user) three times compared to the WAR who can stun only once every 20 seconds. You can actually already do this at the cost of threat, if you think your DPS can nuke a target down in sub-10 seconds (very possible wtih current gear levels.)

To say the least, your point of DR is pretty moot compared to mine in which I mentioned that there needs to be a limiting factor. The limiting factor right now is the GCD, and it's a pretty good one. It makes it a choice between Threat and Utility. And if you want me to go further: Paladin also has further utility in the fact that they can bring Pacification. While not used in any end-game raids, it's very useful on fights like Diabolos (Lost city of Amdapor) as a faux-stun (it will interrupt Nightmare as it's considered a weapon skill.)

[Stigmar]

I really don't think PLD or War need any adjustments right now considering the tank class was one of the first jobs they focus on balancing and adjusting, then there is also Drk coming out end of june and I am sure we will see some re-balancing between the tanks but lets look at some reasons why some things won't get changed.

Stun: Lets face it how many times have you tried to stun something only to find its already over stun because DPS use it in Rotation, if we were really honest when was the last time you were in a ifrit HM where they bother stunning eruptions. Sure PLD can stunlock a mob with only 3 times before it resists Stun (thank you stun lock abusers for that change) but war can stun with out worrying about GCD.

Oath Switching: There a good reason for the GCD anyone else remember the glitch where you could have the effects of sword and shield oath at the same time? I do, lucky tank swapping really wasn't a thing but it would of been harder for the War to get hate. and besides PLD gets two stances War only got the one be grateful you can switch.

Bottom line is they made the tanks different to justify the existence of having 2 different tanks in game Wars: Great for group control lots of hp higher DPS, Paladins: Great Single target tanks and damage mitigation, more DEF most of the changes I see people wanting in this thread and others like this is all about having the best of both worlds lets say they do that which tank should we remove from game and increase the tank shortage.

[Stigmar]

Snip

I really wouldn't say PLD can stun infinitely Stun does use TP I don't remember the exact amount 50 - 100? Either way you will run out of TP fast by spamming it, not to mention lose hate quickly as flash will only do so much.

Besides sure War got a bad Stun re-use timer but that's when DPS need to pull the finger out and use the one muscle they don't normally use DRG MNK NIN even whm can stun all it really means is War groups need to be a little bit smarter about it.

I forget which post it was in and as a pld I agree with it PLD = Easy mode Tanking War = Advance mode.

[Eidolon]

I really wouldn't say PLD can stun infinitely Stun does use TP I don't remember the exact amount 50 - 100? Either way you will run out of TP fast by spamming it, not to mention lose hate quickly as flash will only do so much.

Besides sure War got a bad Stun re-use timer but that's when DPS need to pull the finger out and use the one muscle they don't normally use DRG MNK NIN even whm can stun all it really means is War groups need to be a little bit smarter about it.

I forget which post it was in and as a pld I agree with it PLD = Easy mode Tanking War = Advance mode.

It's 150 to be exact. It's a pretty big investment, but with how much MP tanks have for flashing as-is, you can get it back easily especially during AoE pulls. Paladin's in a pretty comfortable spot with their TP in terms of encounters at the moment. Warrior's if they're wreckless will bottom out quickly (I've had people be surprised I use flash in encounters. I literally don't understand why - it's a great way to threatgen while getting TP back. And if you're not flashing while pacified, you're wasting threat uptime.)

I get what you're saying, at 150 a pop PLD's wouldn't want to constantly pop shield swipe. Even still I think this is just too potent. it's 150 TP for a stun + 110 potency. Not only that, PLD stun is currently a full 6 seconds, compared to WAR at 100 potency / 5 seconds. That's right - Paladin's stun currently hits harder and lasts longer at full time than Warrior's stun.

They would need to do a number of things to take it off the GCD. Give it a cooldown (20 seconds) - Reduce potency (100) - Reduce Duration (5 seconds)... and at that point, why not just play a Warrior like others said?

[Stigmar]

Totally agree with you and that's why War and Pld are the way they are similar but they got strength and weaknesses which make them worth playing, I know from experience a good war can easily manage his/her TP, plus moves like goad and Army's TP is kinda a mute assuming the buggers use em, but like I said earlier I don't feel there any need to change anything right now and I am sure re-balancing will come with heavensward with couple of new moves that they program in that break the game cus we find some way to abuse it XD