[dev1032] PUG skills singled out.

[NoctisUmbra]

With a 30 and 60 second cool down, you shouldn't even be worried about these abilities using up all your mp, even on a boss fight, and if you're tanking, the only healing abilities you should even need to use is second wind.
If your mages can't keep you healed or keep running out of mp, then they are either bad at their class and not managing mp, or you are taking to much damage and need to make adjustments.
My pug requires less cures from mages than my gla counterparts, and I'm not having to use spells to keep from dying.
Also if you're using sac or cure 3 you're just wasting mp, stick with sac and sac 2 if you have to use spells. (the regen outweighs the actual heal)
And the proper buffs for a fight are stone skin and shock spikes, not more cures and styg spikes.
Finally, put up your weapons after each encounter, fleet of foot is nice for farming, worthless in parties.

Looking at your spec I would say you have too much mnd, and could use more dex and str.
Keep in mind that str directly effects damage reduction on blocks, this includes partial parries.
Lodestone doesn't show gear, so i can't suggest any changes there.

Again, the issue is not management. The MP costs are manageable. They are not necessary. They were not explained. MP Costs for every skill in this game has an explanation - a sort of reasoning behind it; spells, elemental attacks, etc.

Light Strike and especially Pummel suddenly get MP Costs, with no other change to their functions. I don't want to repeat the Full Thrust comparisons again.

Also STR does nothing for parries. STR affects the amount of damage that gets cut by a block. Parries, even partial ones, are entirely DEX-based.

[Akuun]

Again, the issue is not management. The MP costs are manageable. They are not necessary. They were not explained. MP Costs for every skill in this game has an explanation - a sort of reasoning behind it; spells, elemental attacks, etc.

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.

Also STR does nothing for parries. STR affects the amount of damage that gets cut by a block. Parries, even partial ones, are entirely DEX-based.

I don't know about it being entirely based on dex, I'm pretty sure that our weapons play some part.
As for dex it's the parry rate, on that I agree.
Dexterity (DEX)
Increases accuracy of physical attacks
Increases chances of evading physical attacks
Increases critical hit rate of physical attacks and resulting damage
Increases parry rate for certain weapons

But from what I and others have seen and tested, str does impact how much damage goes through on a partial parry.
Much the same as it does on shield blocking, since pugilist can't fully parry attacks.
By the way, other classes can fully parry attacks, even archer, but I don't see anyone complaining. ^^

[Arcell]

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.

These ones in particular stick out though because they're attached to our basic attacks. You know, those things that aren't restricted by HP/MP costs on any other class. They don't do anything mystical or magic compared to other skills that also use no MP. There's no reason for Pugilist to have MP costs, Pugilist is just a fist-fighter. It makes even less sense since Pugilist gets little MP per Mind stat and doesn't have a way of regenerating MP via skills natively.

The point isn't that we can't deal with it, it's that we shouldn't have to without good reason.

[Akuun]

I think it's supposed to work that way but I don't believe it does. Also isn't Parry DEX based? Until the stats work and we have per-class point allotment there's not a lot fixing this. If you're talking to me my Mind is so high because I do occasionally play mage classes and at least like to have a decent MP pool.

Understandable about the mnd, I'm waiting for 1.19 to finish off my thaum due to the new dungeons needing more focus on the class that's being used to run efficiently.

[NoctisUmbra]

Understandable about the mnd, I'm waiting for 1.19 to finish off my thaum due to the new dungeons needing more focus on the class that's being used to run efficiently.


As I said before, I think it would be better to create a thread that asks this question, instead of joining one that cries about pugilist being singled out.

Crying?

I was curious as to why Light Strike and Pummel requires 10 and 20 mana respectively, while the other DoW classes have no such resource requirement.

Light Stab (increase accuracy)
Heavy Stab (increase enmity)
Heavy Slash (increase enmity)

Broad Swing (conal attack)
Heavy Swing --
Full Swing (conal attack, increase enmity)

Multishot (extra shot, 15 seconds)
Heavy Shot (reduces target TP)

Heavy Thrust (bind)
Pierce (damages enemies in line)
Full Thrust --

Light Strike (increase evasion and physical defense) 10 MP
Pummel -- 20 MP
Flurry (extra attack)

What justifies it?

edit: archer skills

Here, I color-coded it.

[Physic]

Understandable about the mnd, I'm waiting for 1.19 to finish off my thaum due to the new dungeons needing more focus on the class that's being used to run efficiently.

it sounds like crying but it is completely accurate.

1 job out of every single job that is out has been assigned an mp cost for basic skills (even mages dont have mp costs on basic skills if i rem correctly)

pugilist has been singled out and chosen to bear an additional cost mechanic to basic attacks, that cost is mp. The question is, why? and does it make any sense?

[NoctisUmbra]

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.

They changed Light Strike and Pummel from no MP cost to Mp cost. Nothing else.

There is a skill JUST like Pummel, called Full Thrust that has no MP cost.

Yes, I believe an explanation or a reasonable buff to account for the MP cost is in order.

[hotah]

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.

So what's the harm in asking, again? Truth is PGL is the only class with MP values on TP gaining attacks. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone in the battle design fell asleep on his keyboard and punched in some numbers accidentally-- who knows?!

You're not so much helping my thread directly by answering my question or making conjectures as to why this is. What I've heard out of you is:

1. Learn to play.
2. They don't matter.
3. I am misinterpreting your intentions.

Just let me ask the question, maybe someday some developer will actually look at them spend 20 seconds to write a 2 sentence answer. I can hope.

[Physic]

If it's manageable then why are you making it an issue?
There are and have been plenty of costs that make little sense to us, and have yet to be explained.




I don't know about it being entirely based on dex, I'm pretty sure that our weapons play some part.
As for dex it's the parry rate, on that I agree.
Dexterity (DEX)
Increases accuracy of physical attacks
Increases chances of evading physical attacks
Increases critical hit rate of physical attacks and resulting damage
Increases parry rate for certain weapons

But from what I and others have seen and tested, str does impact how much damage goes through on a partial parry.
Much the same as it does on shield blocking, since pugilist can't fully parry attacks.
By the way, other classes can fully parry attacks, even archer, but I don't see anyone complaining. ^^

just because something is manageable doesnt mean it makes sense. Having asthma is manageable, it doesnt mean it has no effect.

The point is what is the reason we pay mp for 2 out of 3 basic attacks, how does it make sense for pugilist who has no mp abilities. And no mechanics around mp to pay mp for basic skills, are they too great in use? i would say no. light strike is the only thing that makes us any better at dodging then a gladiator. And honestly id be interested in finding out if pugilist even does more DD than a DD equed/stated gladiator.


the point is, there is no reason for us to pay mp, when other classes dont, there is nothing inherently better about our skills, especially when you consider that marauder has steadfast at all times, and lancer has speed surge as a job exclusive ability. the defining point of pugilist was light strike and the flurry mechanic, flurry is gone, and light strike can only exist for 1/3rd the time, and it now it has mp cost.

pummel is totally illogical since full thrust does the same thing.