Dragging last-to-be-killed mob to next pull

[Izsha]

My definition of managing MP includes WHM using Holy as well. As a WHM if you wanna help dps you should always know the limit and not just use holy blindly.

Thats the point though. Telling a dps to 'manage' their tp or a whm holy spam to 'manage' mp is just rhetoric. It really means 'don't use as many aoes'. If chain pulling requires everyone to 'manage' resources more it just means everyone will do less damage. Instead if trickling in mobs and telling people to aoe less, kill everything without holding back, then rest up as you pull a much bigger pull so you can use those resource expensive aoes more efficiently on bigger packs.

It's just win win win. Mages rest mp and get to use it in more efficient aoes on bigger packs. Same with melees on tp. Tanks can pull big and use more CDS to be safer instead of less CDs on fewer mobs. Why use vengeance or HG on 5 mobs then still have 2 more sets of 5 to survive when you could pull 15 and get more out of them?

Tldr: when you aoe, it takes just as long to kill 1 mob as 100. Dragging out the pulls means you frag out the dungeon. Pull bigger, rest while pulling. Faster dungeon everytime.

You don't get more efficient by reducing efficiency.

[Dioptase]

It was very common in ffxi to chain pull like this. Except it was the job of the puller to get the next mob, especially when you were camping birds and you didn't wanna let the other group over camp you.

[Lollie]

It was very common in ffxi to chain pull like this. Except it was the job of the puller to get the next mob, especially when you were camping birds and you didn't wanna let the other group over camp you.

Except in xi you were doing that to get the chain xp which you could acummylate infanitly. The argument is fallacy for xiv since xp hard caps, and correct me if I am wrong but I think dungeon mobs have a flat xp increase and dont chain.

[Artair]

It worked in XI because you gained TP by attacking mobs, not while idle. In ARR you lose TP by attacking mobs and gain tp faster by being out of combat, so chain pulling is a resource drain and eventually leads to a slower dungeon run.

Using XI as a comparison is pointless because the resource systems are polar opposites.

[KisaiTenshi]

If a healer MP goes off so fast. That healer is overhealing and not even trying to manage their MP

Thats the point though. Telling a dps to 'manage' their tp or a whm holy spam to 'manage' mp is just rhetoric.

Tldr: when you aoe, it takes just as long to kill 1 mob as 100. Dragging out the pulls means you frag out the dungeon. Pull bigger, rest while pulling. Faster dungeon everytime.

You don't get more efficient by reducing efficiency.

There is no winning argument honestly. Some people think that a healer not doing DPS are lazy, while others think that doing DPS is wasting MP.

I've encountered the speedpuller more often than the chain-puller.

If a healer MP goes off so fast. That healer is overhealing and not even trying to manage their MP

If the healer is helping your group to kill the group by doing damage (especially a WHM using holy) instead of standing around doing nothing (managing their MP) then they will drain their MP.

Chain pulling is a big resource drain on all members of the party save maybe SMN/SCH. I think the extra couple seconds to finish the last mob is usually not worth it. It's particularly bad when chain pulling between large AoE groups since AoE is so resource intensive.

If you've been reading the forums long enough you'll notice there's several on-going threads about if the healer should be doing damage or not.

This is a great example of where one strategy the tank uses conflicts with another strategy some parties assume.

I have run in to tanks that chain pull all the way to the boss room. As I generally avoid DPS unless both the tank and the DPS are managing to avoid taking damage, the maximum chain is 2+2+2 (eg two closest groups, next two closest, last two closest) before MP is certainly out. A healer who is insistent on DPS'ing will burn out their MP, or a healer who is using Cure2/Medica/MedicaII unnecessarily will burn half their MP per set.

For WHM, it's most efficient to use Cure I, because two Cure I's = one Cure II in MP use but heals more HP overall, especially if a "Freecure" pops (which only pops for using Cure I.) The overall cast time is twice as long. I usually don't run out of MP for most pulls unless it's the "pull everything to the boss room" type of speedpull, which the first 10 seconds is a make or break your healer moment. The healer can tell which is which if the tank pull more than two groups.

However both speed-pulling and chain-pulling are unfair to melee players, since they can't attack a target that is moving, and large amounts of mobs require AOE's, which require combo chains for maximum damage (as compared to the WHM one-button Holy, with it's long cast time and short AOE distance.) The Chain-pulling strategy is probably best used with SMN/SCH's DoT's since any mobs chasing the tank will still die if there are DoT's ticking.

So you're more likely to "Wipe" with a speedpull if you overpull, but you have less efficient DPS by chain pulling, as the game recharges TP/MP faster when out of combat and the dungeons are designed with corridors/paths that give enough time for TP/MP to recharge if you're not doing either. Do whatever works with the party.

[SpookyGhost]

I think this might actually be more of an awareness issue from PLDs, or WARs who don't realize you should be spamming OP with Maim and other buffs up for AOE. You quickly realize, once you start optimizing SRs, that resource management is very delicate and that maximizing TP/MP regen is a very important key to a quick and steady run. Usually, what I do, is if there's a mob left I will start moving to the next pull - but this is only if there is a ranged DPS in the group capable of firing something at it to quickly kill it off. If melee are in the group, I will stand there and help them kill it. There is no sense at all in dragging one nearly dead mob to the next group, that mob should either be dead before you move or dead way before you get to the next pack. You cost yourself AOE from everyone by not letting the outside of combat TP/MP tick, especially if you are doing multiple pulls before the boss.

Also, WHM should be Holy spamming until the pack is dead, WAR should be OP spamming until the pack is dead, etc. etc. The quicker stuff dies the quicker you get to the next stuff and regen TP/MP on the way there to do more Holy/OP/etc.

tl;dr: Don't chain pull, it's slower and doesn't do anyone any good.

[Aeyis]

snip

Spamming holy takes more MP then you realise, I think. Doing it untill all mobs are dead kind of defeats the point of killing them fast.

[Spoekes]

Q: When do you consider chainpulling?
A: In a undergeared grp, maybe all melee dps, lowlevel etc. All-in-all: SR is not an option with this grp.

In this case you can only do 1-2 groups each pull and do either stop and go or chain the last or last two mobs.

"omg you lose 40TP while dragging".
I find it a little bit strange to discuss efficiency for these scenarios, and while it's actually correct, it's rather negligible.

Chain things up keep things moving is imo more entertaining than focussing the last single mob down.

It's actually only a matter of playstyle, no more to it.

[MythToken]

Look how long it has taken all of you to argue about Chain pulling, so add that time into your run and its just not worth it from that standpoint alone.