Marauder needs a damage boost now ~

[KumaAkuma]

Lienn you talk a lot but I don't get what you want from the Mrd class and what you think that should make the Mrd unique. You keep saying people play Mrd like other classes, but what does it mean to you to play Mrd like a Mrd? You might have already said it in your previous posts but it's not very clear to me ><

[Lienn]

Lienn you talk a lot but I don't get what you want from the Mrd class and what you think that should make the Mrd unique. You keep saying people play Mrd like other classes, but what does it mean to you to play Mrd like a Mrd? You might have already said it in your previous posts but it's not very clear to me ><

Yep, i said. Its very simple what i want...i want the basic attacks. Just like ARC, MRD is a class based on basic attacks...all on it is based on basic attacks. So lemme point the main details:

TP: MRD don't have a TP generation action because yu vould get TP from groups of mobs...or some random monster just passing by. This is the basic of MRD TP generation. Only 2 AoE swings every 30 seconds is not enough...why not? Because its also the main way of healing. When you use bloodbath you never target the strongest monster unless its the only monster near...the idea is always having a fast way of pulling TP so you can hit adds.

Adds: Most just call it a curse...but IMO they are the strength of MRD. Its not a bulky class to tank...that's GLA role. MRD is bulky to endure multiple adds for short periods of time. These adds are MRD TP and MRD healing. They are the strength of it.

Enmity: Here we have the Warmonger...most just think "Why the hell using an action that causes berserk to monsters? They will just hit you harder...and worse...you will lock them on you!" Again, its where the basic attack come in...the most poweful defense of MRD (steadfast) will go down if you move...so he will need the AoE basic attacks to fight. Berserk raises attack but lowers defense...so both you and them will take more damage...more damage = more TP = even more damage from WS. This is why MRD don't need the berserk action WAR had in FFXI. Warmonger balances the damage dealt/taken of MRD, allowing you to keep the high DPS even while tanking stuff.

Also, Warmonger adds a temporary enmity bonus...that's why it has such long recast...because it not only locks on the monster but increase your enmity. With defender you're safe and, if steadfast come in, even better. This is why Full Swing is unacceptable with 1 min recast... MRD has native increased enmity actions because of warmonger...this enmity bonus is what let MRD tank while DDing...when you combo full swing and storm path with warmonger the enmity generated is crazy.

Orientation: Another point regarding basic attacks. How do you reorient MRD with steadfast up? Enduring march? No way...i'd be laughing if someone actually answered this. Enduring march is an extremely situational action, only useful if you need to step back 1~2 steps when you killed a monster and want to put a new one in the cone. Someothers might just say "Screw steadfast...it will be back soon enough". However, the correct is to change target...the basic attack will reorient you so the cone will be centered on it. Will it remove steadfast? Nop, it won't. The basic attack offer you the option of reorienting with steadfast up...but not anymore...you cannot "waste" a AoE action to just reorient anymore.

Murderous Intent? Why such dumb action is here? Getting less TP in exchange of crit bonus? Who would want it? Who...other than the dude who can, during its 30 seconds of effect, swing 3...5...7 times the axe in AoE, gaining reduced TP multiple times in addition of critical bonus...and talking about critical rate...which one has better damage bonus? Basic attacks or WS? As a hint i can point some old posts in this forum where people were discussing about the fact some think WS wouldn't even crit (which is not the case...they do crit...but the damage bonus is much smaller than basic attack crit).

STR: So, STR makes your WS much stronger, right? Nop. It doesn't affect WS damage. Only Attack does. You can have a dude with 12 STR ckull sunder for the same damage a dude with 174 STR do. So why STR? Basic attacks. The basic Attack is what put MRD STR in use. This is why it can have weaker WS than LNC or PGL and why the attack from axes are pretty low if compared to straight DD classes like LNC and ARC...because MRD uses STR to its fullest. But the other classes can have the very same STR, right? Right...but they don't have a basic attack that uses 1.5 damage. What this means? This means you can attack multiples enemies at same time OR attack multiple times the same enemy in one attack. Heavy Swing having a 2 swings animation isn't a random thing...you actually is dealing equivalent to 1.5 damage, which would means ~50% increased TP gain...if you have enough STR.

This is the difference from MRD to PGL ot LNC...PGL and LNC actually have their basic attacks aiming TP gain mostly...1~2 swings and that's it. Their damage output come from WS....from Attack. MRD, instead, is like ARC...the TP is generated from fast basic attack spam...or would you think trifurcate and multishot were magic? They're just basic attaks! ARC had the speed and raging strike for damage output and TP generation boost...MRD had the cone attacks and native increased single target basic attack for damage output and TP generation. ARC also doesn't had good WSs...the "best WS" ARC had was multishot...the difference STR does for basic attacks is obcene...you could see this at ARC easily...multshot a mob and then barrage it...barrage will give you 4 basic attacks as if you had raw STR. Same worked for simian trash, chaos thrust and all other multihit WSs...that's why they were that weak at start. That's why ARC focused on multishot. And MRD was the very same thing....its damage would come from basic attacks, not WS. This is why steadfast is like it is...its not a sentinel ot a foresight because MRD is meant to stay put a sec...the basic attack times...the period they store TP is the period steadfast is down, being then followed by a WS burst...This is why it has skull sunder and brutal swing turning cone AoE...the idea is to use basic attacks a while and then only burst a WS combo to finish monsters...2~4 WSs in a row...4 because of skull sunder, of course...now it might be harder due increased storm path TP cost...but if you use brutal you still can pop 4. Doesn't ARC often does the same? Yep, they do. They might not toss 4 WS in a row due their WSs TP cost, but the way of playing is exactly the same...spread multishot as 3 basic attacks and you can see MRD fighting. How much is the boost of raging strike again? About 50%? So ARC go ther and do 3 basic attacks with about 50% increased damage, then starting to WS. Who else can do this to a single target? The very same way, the very same bonus...just a bit slower because they want to be slower so something else can trigger? After 1.18...no one.

So, as conclusion...did MRD need GLA tanking actions for enmity? Nop. Did MRD need LNC actions for TP? Nop. Did MRD need ARC boosts for damage output? Nop. It had everything it needed...some kinda stupid like Iron Tempest or Barbaric Yawp...but what class don't have a few stupid actions? They revamped GLA...Rage of Halone and Ambidextry were the GLA's jokes...ARC still have farshot, quelling strike and arrow helix...so why bashing MRD ones? No need. It never needed those actions to play properly...until 1.18.

Anyway...i'm not talking about actions everyone knows how to use...trying to explain foresight here would be silly of me. But i can say without doubts that MRD was a complete class by its own. And this is why i'm asking basic attacks back...right now MRD is an ARC with 30~60 sec recast on light shot. This text could be much longer...but i'm sure now you guys can see how to play the old MRD...its not like you guys didn't know...its more like playing it as "pure MRD". This is why i say tight now you can't play MRD as MRD...because the way it was meant to be played is broken. You can DD, you can tank...youcan do all his actually very well as MRD still....but relying on other classes...its just a copycat now.

If you want an anime reference, right now MRD is Kakashi...it does can be badass the way it is...but he will never be Itachi because just 1 borrowed sharingan and a bunch of copied jutsus cannot make up to the real sharingan bloodline.

LOL...superlong post >< sorry ^^:

[Zarvlad]

This is the difference from MRD to PGL ot LNC...PGL and LNC actually have their basic attacks aiming TP gain mostly...1~2 swings and that's it.

Wait wait wait. I assume you also play Lancer and Pugilist to state that, right?

Just to make sure I understand your point:

Heavy Thrust: 60 sec recast
Pierce: 30 Seconds Recast
Full Thrust: 60 Sconds

Light Strike: 30 sedconds recast, consumes MP
Pummel: 30 seconds Recast, consumes MP
Flurry: 60 seconds recast

You seem to think PUG and Lancer could spam those at will which is not the case. Also keep in mind that lancer *is* the huge TP generating class, like FFXI's Samurai. and 1~2 swing of these is also enough for Marauder to start WSing.

This is why it can have weaker WS than LNC or PGL and why the attack from axes are pretty low if compared to straight DD classes like LNC and ARC..

Because, as you say, they are straight DD classes, while Marauder is not. Marauder has been designed as an hybrid.

But i can say without doubts that MRD was a complete class by its own. And this is why i'm asking basic attacks back...right now MRD is an ARC with 30~60 sec recast on light shot.

Remember those also had higher stamina use, you couldn't spam them as much as the normal swing, the real TP gain was spamming them against groups of mobs, one to one they were not optimal.

I also assume you have some archer experience; you do know Light shot is basically Archer's auto-attack (heck you had archer complaining about this), not an ability they can spam every seconds, correct?. Multishot has a 15 seconds delay (but bufferable), Heavy Shot 30. Thing with archer is that dammage is all what they have, pure offense and squishiness as trade off.

To make Marauders as powerful attack wise would make the class way to broken (Archer is OP enough already with buffable multishots), unless you forego all defensive quirks.

According to what you want here is (imo) the viable solutions I have in mind:

Shared cooldown delay on basic attacks, usage would reset auto-attack timer.
Basically, the return of the old system, without stamina. Problem is that it would make those atacks somewhat broken (they had higher stamina usage)

Reduced delay on basic attacks
All the jobs (bar archer) needs this to be honest anyways.

Higher TP generation from Marauders' auto-attack
This would be the way to balance this whole thing, imo. Would also make Murderous intent more appealing for Marauder (right now that skill is awesome cross-classing with multi-hit WS)

Keep in mind that a good Lancer will Comrade in arms, helping your own TP gain. The nature of the armoury system lets you, even encourages you to use invigorate.(please don't pull the Pure Marauder Card. The game by design is made for cross class skills use, not doing it is not taking advantage of the game design, even some LS have mandatory cross class skill requirements now. Solo play? Which job can 4-5star R40 leves at rank 40? Gladiator and Marauder that's it. We are awesome at soloing our stuff, no major tweaks needed...oh Archers can, but they die every two mob they kill, we don't)

Offence oriented Job
Jobs are coming in the future. Those jobs are supposed to specialise the classes for specific, fine tuned roles. Speculation goes towards Warrior and Dark Knight for Marauders. both offence oriented classes (look at the FFs in general not only XI).

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Like it or not, Marauder will always stay a mixed defence offence class. Jobs is what will make them more defensive or offensive. Until then if you really want to spam high numbers to single and multi target in parties, by all means be an archer or a lancer.

If you want to stick to Marauder still, then your energies should be well more spent trying to figure out how to squeeze the DPS with what you have available, right now in-game instead of just lamenting on forum how the job is dead, useless, underpowerd, soulless.

I mean can you point me towards posts you made with actual Marauder data, strategies, builds, cross class optimization, etc? I would be very interested to see how YOU play YOUR Marauder, right now, with what the game gives you at the moment. What is your abilities/trairs builds? Gear setup? Attacks routine?

You claim to know the job inside and out, to know how to play MRD as MRD, then why not pointing out it's strengths and teach other marauders how to use their now "souless" job to it's fullest and survive in this "Archer-or-GTFO Darkhold" world?

[Rexus]

Yep, i said. Its very simple what i want...i want the basic attacks. Just like ARC, MRD is a class based on basic attacks...all on it is based on basic attacks.

I don't think jobs were 'based' on basic attacks, they just enhanced the way they played. Even if you take away every classes base attacks, they could still do their job.

PUG = Pummel for DD, Light Strike for Tanking
LNC = Full Thrust for DD
ARC = Heavy Shot for DD (Being able to reduce the Mobs TP will be missed...)
GLA = Heavy Stab/Slash for Tanking/DD (This was a big hit for GLA, but they don't NEED them on 4 second timers to keep hate... go figure.)

With 1.18 putting all those abilities on timers, each of those classes are still able to do their thing. I really don't believe basic attacks "made" the job, it was their abilities and WS's that did (same goes for MRD).

TP: MRD don't have a TP generation action because yu vould get TP from groups of mobs...or some random monster just passing by.

This is supplemented by abilities such as Invigorate and Siphon TP. Using cross-class skills is how the game was designed.

Its not a bulky class to tank...that's GLA role. MRD is bulky to endure multiple adds for short periods of time.

Not meant to tank...? Why does it have enmity generating attacks/abilities, and abilities that enhance Parry Rate/Defense? LNC is not a bulky class meant to tank, MRD was definitely meant to be one.

MRD has native increased enmity actions because of warmonger...this enmity bonus is what let MRD tank while DDing...when you combo full swing and storm path with warmonger the enmity generated is crazy.

Yes, MRD generates a lot of enmity. Aren't tanks supposed to do that?

STR: So, STR makes your WS much stronger, right? Nop. It doesn't affect WS damage. Only Attack does. You can have a dude with 12 STR ckull sunder for the same damage a dude with 174 STR do. So why STR? Basic attacks. The basic Attack is what put MRD STR in use. This is why it can have weaker WS than LNC or PGL and why the attack from axes are pretty low if compared to straight DD classes like LNC and ARC...because MRD uses STR to its fullest. But the other classes can have the very same STR, right? Right...but they don't have a basic attack that uses 1.5 damage. What this means? This means you can attack multiples enemies at same time OR attack multiple times the same enemy in one attack. Heavy Swing having a 2 swings animation isn't a random thing...you actually is dealing equivalent to 1.5 damage, which would means ~50% increased TP gain...if you have enough STR.

STR does increase WS dmg, but it is very minimal. I do hope that will change when the Physical Level/Attribute revamp comes around. MRD weapons have lower ATT than LNC weapons, yes. However, there are Axes with much larger parry rates... to help with tanking. I also feel MRD weapons have slightly lower ATT than LNC ones due to the fact that they are a AoE WS class.

MRD, instead, is like ARC...the TP is generated from fast basic attack spam...or would you think trifurcate and multishot were magic?

Going to leave out all the ARC stuff from quote...

Every class spammed basic attacks for TP gain lol. On any NM (after their adds died in 3 minutes, or less lol!), MRD's spammed Heavy Swing, LNC's spammed Full Thrust, PUG's spammed Pummel. ARC gets Multi-Shot/Trifurcate because it is a DD only job. You cannot compare MRD to ARC, at all.

But i can say without doubts that MRD was a complete class by its own. You can DD, you can tank...youcan do all his actually very well as MRD still....but relying on other classes...its just a copycat now.

MRD was not complete on its own, it would be gimp if you only relied on its abilities..... as would any other job (except for maybe ARC). I feel as though all you want to do is spam Broad Swing on MRD and in turn, spam AoE WS's all day. Honestly, that does not seem like the "right" way to play MRD... to me at least.