Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[Wildsprite]

Of all the of what the OP said, how the hell did you miss line 4 when it's clear as day that you've read line 6 and 8?
Edit inc~

I didn't miss it. he made it fairly clear he will speed run unless there is a new player. not that he will or wont if someone objects to it.

there, I fixed it for you since you obviously need the entire post quoted for it to make sense

[KiLLxMExN0W]

What crawled up his ass? :/

[AdamFyi]

I didn't miss it.

You sure you didn't miss my point?

I'm trying to tell you is that you should be more careful with your words. You could be implying something when you didn't mean to. What you said was in reply to the OP. In context to how your post was worded, it could be taken as an attack and this can lead to problems.

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of the many reasons people don't respond have been touched on but the biggest one if there is a language barrier is the auto translate stinks. let's face it in FFXI you could use the auto translate much easier than the one in this and part of the reason for that was it had enough basics you could use off words to complete a basic enough sentance most could understand. the auto translate in this I have had a tough time getting what I want to say most times when I know people don't speak english..

Only some languages have been touched on, so I can agree on some of your points. However, the DF does have a filter to allow you to select which language you are looking for i.e english speakers would have english selected for the DF, and japanese speakers would have japanese selected from the DF. The problem isn't because the auto-translate is not adequate, but the reason is because the amount of languages this game supports doesn't really support most of the amount of languages in the entire world. Yes, the language barrier stinks, but what can you do about it? :/

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Anyway, I think this topic has gotten waaaaaaaay out of hand. I can't see anymore actual contributions to the actual topic. It's all just a mess right now. I'll leave it to the rest of you to continue or not~

[Naliee]

Threatening the new/newer players with a speed run like the OP "speak up or else I'll speed run" is a "cheap" tactic of the bully. People do not need to dignify that kind of crap with a response. This is not how respectful people communicate with each other.

I knew this could happen but what I meant with "fast and smooth", I wasn't implying that you have to speed run. What I meant is I rather know if you're new that pt can explain the tactics and avoid silly wipes cause someone didn't know what to do. And yes, I am very aware that people run with alts but even then I would like to hear "Hey bonus on me, this is my alt char but I know what to do."

[NyarukoW]

....how you think anyone but the tank sets the pace is beyond me....

The tank does not set the pace nor does the healer nor does any single player. The party as whole need to move as one and together they set the pace. I've tanked dungeons too and I've had to deal with speed running DPS pulling. Remember a few posts back:

...
As tank you can just simply pull less. The idiot that pull mobs on their own, they touched it they bought it and they can die to it, I am not going to get aggro back from them, no thank you.
...

If the insane speed running healer pulls then I offer myself up as the sacrifice, I'll provoke, flash grab everything and die, and shortly after the healer will be dead too. And people will tell the healer to quit pulling everything.

[Ghishlain]

I'm not entirely understanding the problem with NyarukoW here. I mean, they're only agitating against jerk speedrunners who don't communicate and try to force a speedrun even over other players' objections, right? Or am I reading things wrong (which is entirely within the realm of possibility)?

It's a bit more involved than that. NyaukoW's methodology and tactics have given them quite the infamy on these forums. S/he uses a very wide paintbrush to paint too many people under the same swathe. It almost feels like NyarukoW would give the capital punishment to anything between murder and someone who stole a Hershey's bar at a convenience store (this example is complete hyperbole, BTW). I'll break it down a little.

(1) NyarukoW is a white knight of the forum, defender of justice towards newer or less fortunate people
I can get behind this, it's important for the community to be at ease with each other. Sure, there will be some disagreements here or there, but they are generally resolved peacefully, or both side agreeing to disagree.

Then it goes down hill from there.

(2) NyarukoW's rhetoric involves finding one particular point and attacking that one, very, specific, point.
You can see that in general just looking back a few pages. Players give their opinions and NyarukoW takes very specific sentences, lines, even three words and basically says "Nope, you're wrong, I am right, I'm not going anything wrong at all, just trying to prevent abuse from happening". Prevent abuse from happening is an admirable thing, but unfortunately for NyarukoW, this leads up to my next point.

(3) NyarukoW uses a very large paintbrush to generalize too many players under one group
You can see this in a couple of posts in the history of this thread how they equate all speed runners as someone intentionally wiping the party (not even trying to get the party killed, they WILL get the party killed.) More on this later.

There are a couple of other times in the past where NyarukoW has badly generalized people:

• All raiders are non-inclusive elitest jerks
• All raid clear sellers are RMTs
• All early pulls in hunts occur because the person making the early pull is a troll (and may have not accidentally face pulled by not paying attention)
• All people who withdraw from DF queues are abusive DF fishers (and may not have an actual real life emergency come up)

I won't drudge up the posts directly, as they're buried deep down in the forum depths, but you'll find a few people who do agree with this.

(4) NyarukoW's tactics and methods are harassing other players - but they feel no remorse in their own actions

This is a combination of point #3 and the fact that NyarukoW actually have METHODS to stop a speed run dead in their tracks (despite it potentially harassing other players)

Let's go over a few differing examples to show why it can be both right and wrong.

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Example #1
Tank
DPS
DPS
Healer (NyarukoW)

Both DPS says they don't want a speed run, Tank ignores and goes into a mass pull anyway. NyarukoW lets the tank die via tactics listed in this post, run calms down, normal pulls made, everyone is happy.

I can get behind this (I still find it's harassment on NyarukoW's part, but I will let this slide, for now)

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Example #2
Tank (NyarukoW)
DPS
DPS
Healer

NyarukoW begins with normal pulls, one DPS asks for larger pulls, no responses from either of the other two parties, continues doing normal pulls.

Said DPS gets a little impatient and since they're a BRD, starts to pull the next pack back to group while engaging the current one. NyarukoW refuses to pick up said pack, mobs run amok and causes chaos in the group.

Now we're getting into a bit more grey area with the example. There are a couple things can happen, depending on the other player mind set.

I'll preface by saying that we don't know exactly what a silent player is thinking when they well, remain silent when asked about speed running. Their responses could be "Yes", "No", or "I don't care either way".

In this particular example, if the Healer and the silent DPS was in the "no" camp, they probably would've just let the other DPS die and get raised. No skin off anyone's back.

If the healer and the silent DPS were in the "I don't care either way" or "yes" camp, they would engage the new mobs / heal the DPS taking damage. NyarukoW would not pick up any of the mobs and just let the three deal with it themselves, thinking that all silent members are an automatic "no" vote. In this instance, NyarukoW is now harassing the group by not doing the job of a tank. If this continues overall, that's grounds for a vote kick for differing play style.

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Example #3
Tank
DPS (NyarukoW)
DPS
Healer

Let's take my example in a previous post and expand on it. Tank, non-NyarukoW DPS, and Healer are all on voice chat together. DPS is new to the dungeon, Tank and Healer give them a few points over voice chat before hand and there is an agreement to speed run as speed running trash is nothing new for the DPS.

They get into the instance with NyarukoW.

New player bonus pops up.

Tank asks if speedrun is okay. Healer and DPS both stay silent but are already part of the "yes" camp from previous (and private) discussion. NyarukoW gives the "I can do either" response.

Tank runs off, begins a large pull. NyarukoW, following their guide line of "Doing no DPS to protest a speed run to help the new player", does literally that, making no effort to help burn the pack down.

NyarukoW's method has now harassed the group of three, and is grounds for vote kick due to differing playstyle. While yes, no effort was made to explain to NyarukoW what was going on, NyarukoW took it upon themselves to "put the breaks" on the speedrun as they felt they had to protect the "new player" who didn't need any protection (or was already being protected by their allies).

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NyarukoW's fatalist flaw in their logic is everything is Black and White, Right or Wrong, Yes and No. There's no middle ground in their arguments. If you are even remotely wrong, YOU ARE WRONG - at least, that's what I get based on their argument style. And they will let you know by leaving your body on the floor where you lay as "proof" that you are wrong (even though Example #3 clearly indicates an ambiguous scenario).

My beef with NyarukoW's argument isn't with the fact that players shouldn't be abused by overbearing players who act as bullies.

My beef with NyarukoW's argument is that you're automatically branded a bully if you decide to speed pull without full "visual" consent and they will let you die / do absolutely nothing to prove that point to you (which leads back to my hyperbolic example of using capital punishment to punish everything from murder to someone stealing a chocolate bar from a convenience store).

The world isn't as black and white as NyarukoW wants it to be. If it was, we'd have a lot less of these arguments running amok.

[shape]

Thanks for going into detail Ghishlain. i am sure NyarukoW will nit pick and focus on your post as he/she has with every other post.

I think its time for a GM to shut down this post, 1 its straying from the original point and 2 is going in circles, like should people watch/read a guide posts which ends up going the same route.

[Ghishlain]

Thanks for going into detail Ghishlain. i am sure NyarukoW will nit pick and focus on your post as he/she has with every other post.

You're welcome~

I'm honestly expecting the nit pick. It's a nice exercise in patience, arguing with a stubborn brick wall, heh..

[Ashkendor]

You're welcome~

I'm honestly expecting the nit pick. It's a nice exercise in patience, arguing with a stubborn brick wall, heh..

Better you than me. I bowed out ten pages ago, but have been reading and shaking my head this entire time.

And /popcorn. Lots of /popcorn.

[Ghishlain]

And /popcorn. Lots of /popcorn.

*Offers Ashkendor some more butter for the popcorn*

Glad I could entertain~ We're like moths to the fire, and know not when to stop. lol~