Housing market value & insane prices?

[Inzoum]

I have almost 15m gil right now, after having played for only 2 months from 0-50. (I did not keep anything from 1.0)

Great, now try doing that on Masamune. Good luck. Godspeed, and let me know how it turns out. We'll talk about it then.

[Aeyis]

No it's not, if i have money & the game offered me a house with a garden (no matter what size) for rent.
Why is it a bad idea for me if i choose to rent that house?

I'm sorry but you seem to have misunderstood.
The idea of houses (personal, not FC) being available would (in my opinion, as stated) be a bad idea because it is a luxury. It would ofcourse not be a bad idea for anyone, let alone you to choose to rent a house if such a system was in place.

Luxury

to me isnt a stupid house, its a assest.
No, luxury for me is having good friends & having fun.

But that's exactly what I mean. If it's just a ''stupid house'' to you, then why do you care so much about having one?
Personal houses as they are right now require dedication towards obtaining them. Not dedication towards the game, but the house specifically. If you feel that houses just arent that important, then having a house just isnt for you; or am I seeing that wrong?

House ingame is not the same as a house in real life. In real life you need a house. If only one to rent, but you really need one. But in ARR you can get by perfectly without one.
Most of the people I know dont even have one. They could have. But they just dont see what use a house would be to them.
One guy even has a house but doesnt visit or use it. There is no need to have one, only a want. Which is why having a house (again, a personal one) is a luxury.

Items on markets on my server have very low value in terms of how much there really is to choose from.
Whatever NPC sells is far more worth the gil than go out & gather the mats your self.

This is definately an issue, however not a housing issue. It effects your entire servers economy, not just housing. I already posted a short agreement with it earlier, but I'll say it more clearly now.
I agree that your servers economy is screwed over.
However I feel that you should instead make a thread about that, rather then the housing prices.

And yet, the housing market is there to enhance gameplay with more fun & group orientated content,
now, many houses now looks abandoned & are wasting away.

The housing market does little to nothing to enhance fun or group orientated content, unless you frequently RP.
My own FC for example, altho a very sociable and fun group; does not use the FC House as a group at all. And only rarely do its members use it themselves.

- oh and please.... dont talk about my dedication to this game please.

It was never about your dedication to the game, sorry if you misunderstood that.
It was about your dedication towards getting a house. Especially on a high population server you must really want a house to be able to get one. Must really want to put a lot of effort into saving up for one, and buying the plot in time.
It's pretty hard to be that dedicated for a house unless you really really really want it.
That was the kind of dedication I ment.
And as you yourself said you consider friends and fun more important (rightfully so!), it is not strange that I mentioned you lacked the dedication required (to get a house, on a high pop server).
To give a perhaps somewhat odd example:
I don't sport for hours upon hours, so it may be said that I have no dedication towards fitness.
That's certainly correct, but that doesnt mean I lack dedication to live my life, right?
To each their own.


However, this thread pretty much ended once myself, Gilionaire, and MomomiMomi managed to get that price comparison that you did not give beforehand. Had it been known that the economy was that bad on Masamune I would have been more sympathetic. However do bare in mind, we did ask if it was that hard to get gil, to which initially we only got vague answers.


Again however, while I agree that getting a house with those prices are near impossible (for a new player definately, hard to say for a longer player); I hope you do agree that this is an issue that far exceeds just housing.
Masamunes economy being terrible effects everything in the game that is bought or sold with gil. Housing prices and them being hard to be bought is only a side effect of this.


As such, my actual opinion as I mentioned it before:

A better idea would be to actually look at a servers market and base house prices off that.

To elaborate: if they would change the system to base house prices off of the servers economy;
by for example 'tagging' lets say 200 (unknown to us) different items and basing house prices of a comparison between those item prices and a kind of base value on those items.
This would have the side effect that house prices can fluctuate, depending on how frequently they update their economy survey. But it would mean more affordable houses for a poorer economy.

[Aeyis]

Great, now try doing that on Masamune. Good luck. Godspeed, and let me know how it turns out. We'll talk about it then.

Another response after the price inquiry of Masamune? Sure, I will try it. After you actually read posts.

[Inzoum]

Another response after the price inquiry of Masamune? Sure, I will try it. After you actually read posts.

I've been following this entire thread from the beginning, before you even stepped in to comment. I've read your posts as well as everyone else's in this thread. I don't believe the topic is closed because some prices on our server were listed, like you seem to think. I don't see why you should decide that everything's been said and done because someone posted a few materia prices. That "price inquiry" is far from exhaustive and doesn't fully illustrate the market's situation. It doesn't settle the debate at all and there's still plenty of things to say. If people still have things to add, I don't see why they shouldn't.

Think twice before you insinuate that people don't or can't read what others have posted.

Edit: I guess that means you can try making 15 million on Masamune now.

[Aeyis]

snip

That price inquiry definately does show the market situation. I believe I agreed with someone that said your economy is screwed over. That makes it pretty clear that its hard to obtain millions (at this point in time). The fact that you still respond as you do shows that either you really misunderstood a number of posts (if you like I can requote all of them) or just didnt read posts at all.
If as you say the market situation cant be judged based on those examples, that means your market situation is better then those examples portray.


It doesnt change the fact tho, that this thread should have been about Masamuns messed up economy, not housing prices.

Think twice before you insinuate that people don't or can't read what others have posted.

I responded to each section with quotes before already, do you really want me to be even more specific?

If people still have things to add, I don't see why they shouldn't.

I havent seen anyone add anything new to the discussion after those prices were mentioned. Naturally, they are more then welcome to. Perhaps you could ask even more of your friendlists if perhaps they too have something to contribute?

[Inzoum]

That price inquiry definately does show the market situation. (...) If as you say the market situation cant be judged based on those examples, that means your market situation is better then those examples portray.

Or worse. And believe me, it actually is worse.

It doesnt change the fact tho, that this thread should have been about Masamuns messed up economy, not housing prices.

Depends, how much is large housing on your server? If you really want a house more then anything, personally I would say it was worth it.

That's the biggest problem. Economy health and housing prices both go together hand-in-hand, so it's really all entirely relevant. You're being very quick to dismiss a lot of arguments that are definitely related to the problem at hand. You may think I don't read very well, I think you don't reason very well.

While Masamune's economy is flat on the ground, and it's very difficult to make money off the market, the server housing prices are rated in the highest tier:
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...1e2bc04d014cbf

Prices have lowered since, but plot availability is depleted, apart from large plots which now range from 35,000,000 to 43,750,000

We have lowest revenues but we're forced to pay the highest price.

For the record, I have a small private house, which I bought MINUTES after the patch went up. I have spent insane amounts of time saving up for it, sacrificing progress on every other front (crafting/gathering gear, relic...), and it has left me ruined and unable to catch up on my crafting gear for several patches after. I've finally caught up, but now that I have, I've been unable to profit from anything anymore, with even HQ 4 start crafts yielding pocket change for profit, when it sells after sitting idle for 3 weeks in an undercut race.

[Inzoum]

I havent seen anyone add anything new to the discussion after those prices were mentioned.

I'd say you're being awfully selective and dismissing a lot of arguments to better kill this thread.

Naturally, they are more then welcome to. Perhaps you could ask even more of your friendlists if perhaps they too have something to contribute?

And what exactly are you suggesting? How is this snarky remark relevant to the topic at hand? Please. Don't be that guy.

[Aeyis]

Or worse. And believe me, it actually is worse.

I think you would do well not to underestimate others dedication towards working the market.
The items that were listed as example might be only few, but they are very good examples of items that sell well nearly everywhere.
Based on those prices the knowledgable people (that would be Gillionaire and MomomiMomi) accessed that your economy is very bad. I could only agree with them. If you notice my first post the first sentence actually has me asking what the prices are like on Masamune. In fact pretty much all posts from everyone on that page are related to that.

You have to realise, that while your advise not to talk about knowing the situation on another server is certainly sound advice; we did inquire.
And naturally if the prices tend to be extremely difference a mild disbelieve is not out of the question.
The same can be said with the responses from a larger population server when finding it strange that others find the prices for housing ''okay''
You too have to consider what the others perspective in this discussion might be.

That's the biggest problem. They both go together hand-in-hand, so it's really all entirely relevant. You're being very quick to dismiss a lot of arguments that are definitely related to the problem at hand.

The thing is: and I've said it several times now. The main problem is not the housing, it is your servers economy. I believe you might want to talk to people from Balmung, who would love to have any plot available regardless of price or housing; and they too are a high population server like yours. If your economy was not such a huge issue you might well not even have a problem with housing right now..

You may think I don't read very well, I think you don't reason very well.

You are entitled to think that. However, my assement of your reading ability is not a opinion so much as an observation. It's not that I disagree with what you reply, you see. It is just that it replies to something I did not actually say?
My reasoning tho, it could definately use improvement; but I do try.

While Masamune's economy is flat on the ground, and it's very difficult to make money off the market, the server housing prices are rated in the highest tier:
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...1e2bc04d014cbf

Housing prices are only related to size of population at the time they made those brackets. See my earlier suggestion about it. (the clarification of which is in the big post I edited on this page, in response to the OP)

Prices have lowered since, but plot availability is depleted, apart from large plots which now range from 35,000,000 to 43,750,000

We have lowest revenues but we're forced to pay the highest price.

Which again, is because your servers economy is at fault.



The point being. The big evil here is the economy on Masamune being extremely bad. All of points made in the OP about housing prices will pretty fall on deaf ears if you present them as suggestion, because many people on other large population servers (with no plots left) would glad pay 30-40m...if there were plots to be had.
The main issue that most have with housing these days, appear to be lack of available plots; rather then the prices themselves. (altho prices may be included if we asssume small plots)


The way I see it; if you want to suggested an improvement for your situation towards SE; you've 2 choices. Either focus on Masamunes economy being bad and it making it impossible to use features such as housing. (a very valid concern considering Masamunes economy)
Or, well that is it really; frankly. The OP has too many easily disputed arguments in it. When it could be a well writting post about Masamunes bad economy, and the effects it has on the housing market for that server.


Rather then trying to argue with me (and trying to refute that you arent reading posts clearly), should you not help the OP in putting forth a great suggestion?

[Aeyis]

I'd say you're being awfully selective and dismissing a lot of arguments to better kill this thread.



And what exactly are you suggesting? How is this snarky remark relevant to the topic at hand? Please. Don't be that guy.

You say that, but I've posted a heck of a lot of times now when I saw my intention of words being misunderstood. Why havent you responded to any of those occasions? Really (wo)man, the ball is in your court, and has been for an entire damn page.

I'd say you're being awfully selective and dismissing a lot of arguments to better kill this thread.

For someone trying to kill a thread I'm sure typing a lot of words.

You are also welcome to give me a single argument I dismissed, or any arguments I missed due to being selective. The only arguments I've seen I argued against. I've not intentionally dismissed any, nor did I choose which to argue against.


Well nevermind that, I've already said what I wanted to say quite a few times now, it is up to you to read any of the numerous occassions or not. I do hope however that you have some appreciation for the Hour and a Half of my time that I gave you, which time aside also cost my beastman dailies..

Sometimes I just don't know why I bother to reply anymore..

[Inzoum]

I think you would do well not to underestimate others dedication towards working the market.

I don't have to, I'm among them. I'm at the top of both crafting and gathering chains. I have a private house (by that measure, I "won" that battle, but it took a heavy toll). It wouldn't be possible anymore after the way the economy tanked. I used to make money working the market, now I don't, and it's not because I'm not looking for ways.

However, my assement of your reading ability is not a opinion so much as an observation. It's not that I disagree with what you reply, you see. It is just that it replies to something I did not actually say?

I disagree that this can be qualified as an observation. There is no way you can know whether I have actually read these posts without peering over my shoulder as I do. By that measure, your remark clearly isn't directed at whether I have or haven't read these posts, but is rather directed at my reading ability. Your opinion (not observation) was that my comments were not appropriate with the topic at hand according to you and your vision of things, again something I disagree with.

I believe calling people out on their reading ability is foul and counter-productive. It is nothing more than a personal attack. It has no place here.

Rather then trying to argue with me (and trying to refute that you arent reading posts clearly), should you not help the OP in putting forth a great suggestion?

For one, I shouldn't even have to refute anything, because you should never have resorted to such low personal attacks. You did not see where I was going with my remark, so I explained, and I would still defend the validity of my comment regarding the problem at hand. Your insinuations were uncalled for and I do no take the insult lightly.

Speaking of insinuations, what was that about my friend list?


Second, Hale doesn't need my help putting forth great suggestions.

My posts were meant to argue about the situation of Masamune's economy, which you and I both agree is a key factor in people's inability to access housing. It's not the only one, but it takes a particular importance when put in comparison to the pricing brackets for housing on Masamune (highest tier of all servers), which is a very real issue. If you ask someone to climb a hill by crawling on his hands and knees, it's already difficult enough without turning that hill into a mountain.

Without your ill-intentioned dismissal, I would not have had to justify my post and this thread would still be on track. You are not the master of this thread, quit acting like you own the discussion.