Progression locks are bad

[Edellis]

Once again, it's not that I'M incapable of doing the encounter. It's that the encounter isn't friendly to pick up groups.

This doesn't make much sense. It's not like this situation is going to get any easier when you get to Second Coil. Groups only become harder to find, and you're still gonna get greeners or people who can't dodge or follow instructions or quit after 2 wipes when you start T6. Don't even get me started on T9.

You might as well get used to it. Get one or two players you're cool with, friend them, and build parties with them to eliminate the amount of potential feeders you get in any given party.

[technole]

You might as well get used to it. Get one or two players you're cool with, friend them, and build parties with them to eliminate the amount of potential feeders you get in any given party.

Yep, the OP is only thinking of locking content behind T5 now. Wait until he comes back for T9 with the same story.

The best solution is start getting a group together, whether it's a LS or just a close set of friends that are near the same skill level to work on the content regularly, use the same group for SCoB as well because you are going to need coordination several times again.

As for EX Primals, they already were loosened a bit by not locking Leviathan and beyond behind The Primal Focus quest.

[Eloah]

Okay, I am posting to assure the OP that some people understand what he means. He would like to be able to try the locked content since, the previous content is no longer relevant. For everyone who, I'm assuming, is having a difficult time understanding it, think of it this way. When Coil was first released, you had to progress through, T1-T4, in order, before gaining access to T5. But now, since First Coil is no longer relevant, and I'm assuming the same for Second Coil, T1-T5, and I guess T6-T9, can be done in any order, but only T5 and T9 need to be beaten to unlock the next set of turns.

While I admit it is frustrating, something like Coil or the Crystal Tower being "locked" makes a little sense, however, having the primals locked behind one another is another story. If the content is linked together in some way, like story, then having certain portions locked makes some sense to me. But if the content is stand alone, like the primal fights, they should all be accessible individually.

[Callinon]

Okay, I am posting to assure the OP that some people understand what he means.

I'm not so sure about that.

I wanted to give feedback from my particular perspective (the only one I'm qualified to give feedback on) that locking content behind other irrelevant content is bad. Basically making me do the previous raid in order to do the current raid when I don't need any gear from it.

For a WoW analogy, it'd be like forcing me to complete Mogu'shan Vaults before I'm allowed to step foot into Throne of Thunder. This is something neither Blizzard nor any other major developer does because it doesn't make any sense to do that and needlessly encumbers newer players.

But the consensus here, apart from a tiny handful of people who actually seemed to understand my posts, is that progression locks are fantastic. All hail the progression lock. And keeping newer players away from current content as long as possible is not only a good thing but a great thing.

So I guess both I and my perspective are wrong.

Btw I did complete T5 today with a new group who want to work on T9. Having completed T5, I STILL believe that progression locks are bad. But what do I know.

[Kaze3434]

But the consensus here, apart from a tiny handful of people who actually seemed to understand my posts, is that progression locks are fantastic. All hail the progression lock. And keeping newer players away from current content as long as possible is not only a good thing but a great thing.

So I guess both I and my perspective are wrong.

Btw I did complete T5 today with a new group who want to work on T9. Having completed T5, I STILL believe that progression locks are bad. But what do I know.

just because people dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they dont understand it.

[MrCookTM]

Until very recently I didn't have one of those.

And social skills have absolutely nothing to do with the content being un-puggable.

Again (and again and again since people aren't reading), I'm not asking for the content to be made easier. It's fine that it's hard. It's even good that it's hard. But locking off the content after it is bad. All the social skills in the world won't change the fact that I didn't attack this encounter when it was current, and so now finding a group that is both capable of clearing it AND will take someone who never has is extremely difficult and it has nothing to do with social skills.

Having a group is the one main thing you need if you want any kind of success in fcob. And if you have one, clearing T5 and T9 will be your easiest task. You are stating that being in a FC that's kind enough to help shouldn't be required to begin with, but exactly that is what you need in current raid content: people to play with. If you were able to pug through T5 (which is easily doable by now, just recently had a one-shot with three ppl getting the achievement after) and T9 without effort fcob would be your next wall, because these fights aren't pug friedly either. No point to not put T5/T9 in front of it as a skill check, even for raidgroups.

tl;dr the hardest task in this game is to have a group of similarly skilled and dedicated players with the same schedule as you. If you don't have that, you can't raid the recent raid tier. That's where it is gated, not in T5/T9.

[Spoekes]

Gotta agree with Mr Cook that finding a group is the most important thing.

That thing however is not so trivial for T5 and T9.
You can find 10 statics to join for FCOB with any role any day of the week, but the difficulty of finding these groups for the older content is often underestimated by players who got the kill while it was current tier.

[technole]

Having a group is the one main thing you need if you want any kind of success in fcob.

*snip*

Yep, agreed. Not to mention current coil content is never in the Duty Finder for quite some time, and why a FCoB party has to gather at the N. Thalahan entrance point to enter any of the turns. Collaboration with people on your server is obviously encouraged, and required. But people who never get to experience this content when it's prime time don't always understand the gated aspect of this.

As for SCoB statics, I still see requests for people to form groups from friends list, shouts, and forums all the time lately. It can be a great way to get a newer FC/LS going as well. So I don't think it's that difficult that some people make it out to be, someone just needs to make the initiative.

[MrCookTM]

Gotta agree with Mr Cook that finding a group is the most important thing.

That thing however is not so trivial for T5 and T9.
You can find 10 statics to join for FCOB with any role any day of the week, but the difficulty of finding these groups for the older content is often underestimated by players who got the kill while it was current tier.

I can absolutely see your point. Though just having the kill is what maybe gets you into a group, it's not neccesserily what makes you stay there. One prime example is that we recently kicked a dragoon that we ran with out of our group after a handful of raid nights, because he did terrible dps in fcob and failed easy mechanics repeatedly. We then asked him to join us in a T9 to help a FC friend out for the kill, but he 'didn't feel comfortable with the fight'... One can only imagine, what the reason was (prolly bought the kill).

Anyway. Doing these fights, T5, all of scob including T9, ex-primals etc. basically all execution-heavy, non locked out content repeatedly together with your FC/LS/Friendslist will put you on notice IF you're a decent player and will lead to a place in a static eventually, one that you will not lose immediately after because you learned how to play your job in stressful content and became a capable player. Not needing to do any of this stuff in order to have access to fcob won't lead ppl anywhere but frustration because 'omfgshitneedzanerf' pugs wipe to T10 enrage with the boss still having 15% hp (happened to my gf about a week ago ^^) because 123ing 350+ dps (more isn't needed) while executing mechanics apparently is quite the task.

[technole]

*snip*

We then asked him to join us in a T9 to help a FC friend out for the kill, but he 'didn't feel comfortable with the fight'... One can only imagine, what the reason was (prolly bought the kill).

Personally anyone FCoB eligible and says they are still uncomfortable with T9 is a red flag. Granted the early turns of FCoB aren't anywhere near the mechanics execution needed in T9, it still is a good test. On the flip-side it has that RNG factor and it is possible to never have personally gotten all the testy stuff (garrote twist, fire, thunder, thermionic, divebombs) themselves. It's sometimes why T9 farm parties can fail, someone gets a mechanic for the first-time and they brain-freeze.

So yeah, it's not just about getting the kill.