Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[Kosmos992k]

Party finder was designed for the sole purpose of using prerequisites and requirements for a party to complete content, DF was not. DF is a group of random players across multiple worlds who never agreed to anything when queued up for it or prior to entering.
**snip**
As I said earlier the default position for DF runs should be normal speed and with cinematics, players should not have to ask for a normal speed run in DF or ask for permission to watch cinematics in DF. Speed runs on the other hand should not be the default position in DF and should require asking permission of the group inside if they are all okay with speed running it before start clearing it.

Indeed, I cannot understand how it is that players have come to believe that Duty finder is the place for speed runs and pre-mades in party finder are for normal speed, it's just ridiculous.

Well I thought it would be obvious that I didn't mean every tank in the game. :P

I presumed that you did not mean every tank in the game, but your statement was overly broad, and I wanted to clarify because I am pretty tired of people tarring all tanks with the same brush.

[DragonFlyy]

If there is a message that says someone is new, why bother asking? You know at that point someone is new, so go slower for them. It doesn't matter which one it is, as for alts, well most people won't bother with alts since we are able to be every class. If they aren't new and the server says they are, start slow and if they ask to go faster, then do so.

[DragonFlyy]

I pull half regardless of any message to test the group - after they pass the initial gear check. The new player message doesn't change the way I pull mobs, since there is no strat to killing trash... just pew pew them and stay out of red circles.
If a BLM only uses Fire 1 instead of 2? I now pull less instead of telling him to do it my way, since that shows he isn't comfortable with speed/not use to it.

I will, however, always go over boss strat if I see a new player message regardless if anyone speaks up or not.

I like you!

[LineageRazor]

if you want to speedrun you have a tool for this, called Party Finder, if you want to speedrun into DF you are dreaming, just saying.

Whoa, I must be livin' the dream, then! Not only do I pretty much ALWAYS use DF for my speedruns, we almost always succeed without a wipe.

It's like I've been saying all along in this thread: People are better than you give them credit for. You don't need double BLM WHM to speedrun. They'll be BETTER at it, sure, but even a pair of MNKs will kill a large group of mobs with their aoe skills in less time than they would killing them one by one in small pulls. That's the whole purpose of the aoe skills: less individual damage, but adds up to much more when applied to groups of mobs.

On another topic, folks are speaking of newbies as if in each new dungeon they've never participated in a speedrun before. That's not necessarily true. Trash pulls are largely the same from dungeon to dungeon; if a player has speedrun Sastasha Hard, then they know pretty much all the mechanics they need to know to speedrun AK Hard. Once you know HOW to speedrun, you pretty much know how to do it anywhere. Really the only exception to this rule is the tank, who has to work out just how much they can pull in each new dungeon.

Now, if you're saying that dungeons should be run slowly for newbies so they have the opportunity to take in the sights and enjoy the scenery, that's another argument completely, and one that I fully support. I'm more than happy to let new players drink it all in, if that is what they would like to do. To date, though, with the exception of Tam-Tara Hard (folks wanted to read the notes), no one has taken me up on that offer.

When I encounter a newbie in a dungeon, given no other information, I assume that they know what they are doing, and that they know how to play their job. And, far, FAR more often than not, I am correct. I feel badly for all the folks in this thread who jump straight to the conclusion that random pick-ups are going to be inbred mouth-breathers who operate their game controls with their toes. New players are usually just as good as, if not BETTER than so-called seasoned veterans. The strategies for handling large trash pulls do not vary significantly from dungeon to dungeon. Done one speedrun? Done them all. And if a newbie is new to speedrunning? You're doing them no favors by denying them the opportunity to learn. It's a skill they're going to want to have, in the long run.

[Ashkendor]

You might be the only tank in all of Eorzea who is willing to wait 5 seconds for buffs. As a healer it drives me absolutely batty when the tank runs off without SS and Adlo, and I have literally never had one wait for the past few patches =/. They just don't understand how much wiggle room a little bit of prevention gives me...

You might be the only healer in all of Eorzea that actually buffs the tank in a reasonable amount of time without being prodded to do it. As a tank it drives me absolutely batty to stand there staring at the healer while they chat or just plain do nothing for 30 seconds, only to have them cast adlo/stone skin/regen/eye for an eye on me right when I aggro mobs so that 2 out of 3 make a beeline for them. They just don't understand how much extra damage I end up taking when I have to double back for strays instead of staying ahead of the pack.

[NyarukoW]

I have no issue with speed runs or conventional runs. I heal. So, I'm prepared for both. I know how to holy spam or bane while keeping the tank alive during mass pulls. However, if you choose to do a massive pull and use no cooldowns, I will purposefully let you die and laugh hysterically while you rage in chat.

Exactly. All these speed runners that think they just run off without protect and abuse the healers, don't be surprise when the speed runner's corpse is lying there along with the dead mobs.

[FranSeara]

"Indeed, I cannot understand how it is that players have come to believe that Duty finder is the place for speed runs and pre-mades in party finder are for normal speed, it's just ridiculous."

Oh KosMos, I know there was a reason, I always loved your games! Keep up the great work! lol

[Aeyis]

Trash pulls are largely the same from dungeon to dungeon; if a player has speedrun Sastasha Hard, then they know pretty much all the mechanics they need to know to speedrun AK Hard. Once you know HOW to speedrun, you pretty much know how to do it anywhere. Really the only exception to this rule is the tank, who has to work out just how much they can pull in each new dungeon.

That is incorrect. For a healer it is imperative to know what packs will be pulled, how many, and how exactly when and where the tank pulls. And depending on the pull you will likely need more then one time doing it to get used to it (each seperate speed run).

On top of that in my experience 95% of all tanks overextend their own abilities or the healers capacity for healing when they speedrun/pull. Very nearly none of them take note of the healers abilities being on cooldown either.

You might be the only healer in all of Eorzea that actually buffs the tank in a reasonable amount of time without being prodded to do it. As a tank it drives me absolutely batty to stand there staring at the healer while they chat or just plain do nothing for 30 seconds, only to have them cast adlo/stone skin/regen/eye for an eye on me right when I aggro mobs so that 2 out of 3 make a beeline for them. They just don't understand how much extra damage I end up taking when I have to double back for strays instead of staying ahead of the pack.

Im sure you have a healer. Play it sometimes to see what the cast time on stoneskin or aoe stoneskin is. Or the fact that you cant use the later in combat. Or you know, that when you move when they are casting you should probably stop moving instead of letting it hit after you aggro mobs.

[NyarukoW]

...
On top of that in my experience 95% of all tanks overextend their own abilities or the healers capacity for healing when they speedrun/pull. Very nearly none of them take note of the healers abilities being on cooldown either.

That is so true. This why you want to nip it in the bud, keep the party up but let the speed runner tank die with the mobs. This lets the healer recharge the MP and slow down the speed run. And this choice words you get from tanks that are completely oblivious and inconsiderate of the healers and everyone else:

.... As a tank it drives me absolutely batty to stand there staring at the healer while they chat or just plain do nothing for 30 seconds,

It is called cooldowns. People switch from crafting gathering class when DF queue pops. It takes about 30 seconds for those cooldowns to be ready for things like protect and stoneskin.

... them cast adlo/stone skin/regen/eye for an eye on me right when I aggro mobs so that 2 out of 3 make a beeline for them. They just don't understand how much extra damage I end up taking when I have to double back for strays instead of staying ahead of the pack.

Do NOT run ahead of the packs, slow down, do not run so fast, shield lob, tomahawk and bring the mobs to the group. Spend the time to secure the agro before moving ahead and pulling more and expanding the pull. It is a tank not a kite, you do not want a string of them behind you that you can lose aggro any time and make the healers do heal tanking. If healer do not regen, E4E, adlo, etc. the tank will be dead by the time they get to that 9th mob. Do your aggro generation wait for the healer to catch up to your position and do NOT run all over the place like a chicken without its head, specially don't make that beeline out of healng range and around a corner and out the line of sight for healing and cry about not getting heals. NO single player sets the pace, the group has to move together as one.

As healer I had to compensate for too much of this nonsense too many times and sometimes the best thing you can do is letting the speed runner tank corpse lie there with the dead mob with the rest of party up and getting a breather. This works good as awake up call to slow down and not wipe the party. The speed runner may have the gas pedal but any player can put on the brakes especially the healer.

[AdamFyi]

What the OP wants is for people to speak up if they are unfamiliar or just new to the dungeon so that he can decide the best course of action. It's pretty true that newer players don't speak up when asked for fear of being looked down upon. However, there are a lot of players willing enough to take it step by step and help out when given the opportunity. Hence, what the OP is asking for is legitimate; speak up and he'll slow down. However, in this case, nobody spoke up until something probably bad happened.

Now you all are just arguing back and forth on whether or not speed runs are appropriate in DF with no conclusion and the complete disregard for the opinions of others when they disagree with you. Please get back on topic. No, I don't want to stroke your e-peens just because you think your opinion is the only absolute answer. This whole thing has already been argued with since the whole cutscene skipping fiasco - and we all know how that turned out. ಠ_ಠ