Warrior Parry - yay or nay.

[Sleigh]

That's WARs huge advantage. They can build hate during their opener with Unchained and lose next to no DPS.

PLDs are stuck in shield oath for at least one combo to establish hate then its back to sword oath. (depending on the fight)


Parry is terrible and always will be. The base amount is plenty for every encounter in the game.

Not sure where you're coming from with PLD having to start in Shield, our PLD starts every fight in the game currently in Sword and holds hate. If Quelling is applied, and WAR starts with SE > Fracture > SP, there is nothing to worry about except lucky crit NIN/DRG.

[Gildarts]

Not sure where you're coming from with PLD having to start in Shield, our PLD starts every fight in the game currently in Sword and holds hate. If Quelling is applied, and WAR starts with SE > Fracture > SP, there is nothing to worry about except lucky crit NIN/DRG.

pretty much this, PLD can hold hate fine with Sword Oath, besides NIN/DRG if WAR open with Defiance+unchained could pull hate easier than NIN/DRG but you should never open with that as OT in T10 or T11.

[SirTaint]

Not sure where you're coming from with PLD having to start in Shield, our PLD starts every fight in the game currently in Sword and holds hate. If Quelling is applied, and WAR starts with SE > Fracture > SP, there is nothing to worry about except lucky crit NIN/DRG.

Static content is different then PUG content.

Static content your WAR should be opening for everything.

"Depending on the fight" was included for a reason.

[Sleigh]

Static content is different then PUG content.

Static content your WAR should be opening for everything.

"Depending on the fight" was included for a reason.

Can't agree with WAR opening for everything, especially in FCoB. You can make far better use of Unchained in T10 than blowing it on the pull. T11, WAR shouldn't purposefully keep aggro and Sword Oath opener > SE no aggro opener. T12 you can pull with either even though we prefer PLD to pull so WAR can semi-solo the Bennu and maximize DoTs/Flares/AoEs without needing heals.

We have WAR pull T13 but that's because we skip second Earthshakers and just let WAR blow everything for more healer DPS, something PLD unfortunately can't do without getting into trouble in Sword Oath.

[SirTaint]

Can't agree with WAR opening for everything, especially in FCoB. You can make far better use of Unchained in T10 than blowing it on the pull. T11, WAR shouldn't purposefully keep aggro and Sword Oath opener > SE no aggro opener. T12 you can pull with either even though we prefer PLD to pull so WAR can semi-solo the Bennu and maximize DoTs/Flares/AoEs without needing heals.

We have WAR pull T13 but that's because we skip second Earthshakers and just let WAR blow everything for more healer DPS, something PLD unfortunately can't do without getting into trouble in Sword Oath.

I guess its just different strat?

T10 - when would he use Unchained? Our WAR doesn't use it on the first adds and its back up for the 2nd sets adds. (we LB 2nd set 3,4,5,6 adds)
T11 - our WAR opens with unchained and I voke during the first head
T12 - doesn't matter as stated
T13 - our WAR opens blows everything, then I take over (sounds like you do the same)

[Gildarts]

T10: you use unchained for 1st set of adds and second set, reason little DPS lose and i have everyone kill my adds first so pld can get better hate on other adds with Sword oath
T11: not sure again why would you wanna open with unchained, you could use it around first head and then Drop Defiance , better for max DPS over all "on first phase thats only time im in defiance"

[SpookyGhost]

There's no reason not to open with Unchained if you are MTing T10 as it allows you to start with SE and it also makes the best use of Berserk and IR since this is the only point where all your offensive buffs will be up for full duration at the same time. You only save Unchained as OT if you'll need to be actually tanking something before it's back up again - this doesn't apply to MT as... you're tanking it as soon as you press Tomahawk.

Also, in T11, I don't really see the point of SwO PLD, nor do I see the point in not opening with Unchained. If anything, 2x WAR both opening with Unchained is the way to go. If SwO PLD works for you, though, I obviously don't recommend changing it.

T12 and T13 should both be opened with Unchained, MT or OT.

[SirTaint]

T10 - He doesn't use Defiance on the first set of T10 adds, we kill his first and they melt, he does use vengeance.

T11 - PLD is nice you can HG twice during Heads and you get the awareness buff for the cube. Sword oath PLD and WAR are extremely close in DPS.

T12 - Sleighs point is good if you can skip your BRD from focusing the Bennu at all. Opening with WAR or PLD doesn't matter here though.


Being able to sworth oath tank everything does devalue unchained as a MT DPS tool but its still nice to abuse for the hate spike.

Pretty interesting to read everyones different strats.

[Sleigh]

Also, in T11, I don't really see the point of SwO PLD, nor do I see the point in not opening with Unchained. If anything, 2x WAR both opening with Unchained is the way to go. If SwO PLD works for you, though, I obviously don't recommend changing it.

I agree you should open with Unchained, even my group which has more DPS than most, the adds spawn pretty close to the second Unchained coming back up. Most groups would have Unchained up a bit before the second adds even spawn.

Sword PLD + no Defiance WAR works on a lot of levels really for T11 (and T10-13 in general). Sword Oath PLD can use CDs for Resonances and just general healer aid with no DPS loss, does equal to or better DPS than another WAR, and gives RoH debuff which is quite welcome if tanking with two tanks without tank stance, those autos and Resonances are no joke. Plus, Sword Oath PLD is just in general more survivable than no Defiance WAR even disregarding CDs, so it's the better MT for the fight.

WAR WAR, the DPS is gonna be really, really close if not worse, and you'd have one hell of a time doing no tank stances while maintaining good healer DPS since you lose RoH and the main target of those attacks can't block anymore. You'd be living on sparse Foresights and Vengeances here and there with WAR WAR, and if they have to enter Defiance without Unchained it's a for sure DPS loss.

[SlyRoyale]

Also, in T11, I don't really see the point of SwO PLD, nor do I see the point in not opening with Unchained. If anything, 2x WAR both opening with Unchained is the way to go. If SwO PLD works for you, though, I obviously don't recommend changing it.

I Oath Dance during T11 for Nerve Gasses as Kaliya isn't auto-attacking during those times, and you don't need cooldowns for anything else other than giving yourself a buffer to switch back to Shield Oath. I can get 2-3 RoH combos in Sword Oath depending on the cooldowns used (for example: one combo during Nerve Gasses, a second with Sentinel, and up to three with Rampart + Foresight). Figured it out on my own when my static first went into T11, and fleshed it out further to consider future cooldown usage for the add phase. Sword Oath PLD is pretty viable for T11, so I wouldn't count it short.