can MNK get a somewhat acceptable AOE skills?

[Krr]

If MNK's are suposed to be single target masters who can't do anything against a group of enemies, or in fights that have any downtime at all, why aren't they further ahead than NIN and DRG on DPS then?

Because the MNK has multiple near-mandatory raid utilities and will in fact do roughly 10-15% more DPS than the NIN and DRG given equal gear and skill.

[Maero]

So what you guys now want aoe better then nin or drg?
Like it's not enough that in most cases you still do more ST damage.... how high of a pedestal do you want

[synesthetic]

So no one gives a thought to the next pull? Sure you can blow every CD and pop off great numbers for almost any DPS, but then you have no buffs or TP/MP for the next pull 10 seconds later, great planning.

Well ideally, there's only one major pull and no mob to worry about after that until after a boss fight. I can think of several stretches where they'd take ~7-10 minutes for a single-pulling party, but only ~2 for a good AoE party that can do a full pull. I don't mind waiting a few seconds if people need TP/MP after a pull like that; the run is faster with or without needing to wait for resources to come back.

It's not so different from BLM AoE, in that you need to build up a little before cutting loose. Get to GL2 or 3 first, then pop everything, including PB, and drop Rockbreaker like there's no tomorrow.

Don't have any numbers on file, since that was months ago at lower-than-current ilevel, but it was a match for a BLM. Except for that three-minute CD.

That sounds similar to what I heard about the crazy pair of AoE MNKs I was told about. Main difference is I think they didn't build up GL stacks first. For the dungeon they were in though, the mob still died with PB going--so roughly ~10 sec.
After talking with someone else more about this topic, I'm sure PB-AoE'ing MNKs would do just fine in older dungeons, but how viable would they be with the newest dungeons?

How long does it take to build up to GL2 or 3? And then does the damage increase and TP efficiency make up for that time spent?
For several pulls I can think of with the current set of Expert dungeons, mobs can take 20 seconds or a bit more for (as far as I know) good BLM-BLM or BRD-BLM pairs I've been with, even with say a WAR tank and healer helping DPS. Given mobs that take that length of time, I'm guessing a MNK couldn't stand on par with a mage anymore, but how would they compare with a DRG then?

MNK: Arm of the destroyer (50 Potency) --> Single target attack(?) --> Rockbreaker (130 Potency) and Howling fist (170 Potency) somewhere between

DRG: Doom Spike (160 Potency) --> Doom Spike (160 Potency) --> Doom Spike (160 Potency)

I would consider sustainable buffs, too. I don't know how much MNK gets, but I know a DRG should be able to maintain at least the 15% damage buff from Heavy Thrust, so Doom Spikes would be more like 184 than 160.

[Fenral]

That sounds similar to what I heard about the crazy pair of AoE MNKs I was told about. Main difference is I think they didn't build up GL stacks first. For the dungeon they were in though, the mob still died with PB going--so roughly ~10 sec.

Building up GL is totally optional, but it means you get two to three extra Rockbreakers at "full" potency. The DPS spike is comparable to a BLM's Double/Triple Flare, but the overall encounter parse will still never be as good.

Also, it's expensive and uses all your CDs, so best saved for when the tank can pull EVERYTHING leading up to the boss.

[Issachar]

Is this a troll thread? Howling Fist is a Monk ability on a 60 CD, Doton is a crappy Damage over time effect and a waste of Ninjitsu cast 90% of the time. Any solid monk will combo to keep up atk/atk speed buffs and drop some Rockbreaker combo action. We honestly do better than most.

Speaking as a master ninja, you know nothing. Doton is amazing. If you are using Katon for anything but AoE while Doton is up, stop now.

Doton > you.

[ErzaScarlet77]

What Monk need first before a better AoE skill is a ranged skill.
DRG throw spears, NIN throw knives and MNK throw nothing. Why?
Please SE, give MNK the Chakrams back.

the reason most MNKs (or well, i) dont talk about it i think is because im 99m999999% sure MNk are gettign some kind of chi blast thing that will add GL stack
or at least i hope we do.
i feel liek chi blast is already more requested than increased GL duartion

[Felessan]

Don't have any numbers on file, since that was months ago at lower-than-current ilevel, but it was a match for a BLM. Except for that three-minute CD.

A good AOE from Bard and Nin require using 2 min cooldowns so they are pretty much in the same boat. Nin can omit it, but Bard is very dependent on it's cooldowns for high AOE numbers.

So no one gives a thought to the next pull? Sure you can blow every CD and pop off great numbers for almost any DPS, but then you have no buffs or TP/MP for the next pull 10 seconds later, great planning.

You don't usually need to care about next pull as there are usually only one significant big pull between bosses. And bard for example blows all their damage-up cooldowns for their nice numbers, so they are in even worse situation.

I would consider sustainable buffs, too. I don't know how much MNK gets, but I know a DRG should be able to maintain at least the 15% damage buff from Heavy Thrust, so Doom Spikes would be more like 184 than 160.

27% from GL3 + 10% from twin snakes

[alsims2007]

If you know how to play monk they are nowhere near bottom aoe dps. I find ninja to be the lowest since poison became physical only. Obviously I cant beat a good blackmage (or holy spamning whitemage) and 3-4 enemies I cant beat a summoner (the bane 3 enemy limit needs to be removed or increased).
3 enemies I cycle demolish on my targets. Less than 3 I single target. On larger pulls I still apply demo first to test the other dps. If it looks like an enemy will die before demo runs out then I'll avoid using PB and let the better equipped dps do the majority of the aoe while I only rockbreaker (usually only happens with blm or smn. Never with a physical dps). If enemies are dropping hp slowly, i'll demo another enemy, target a 3rd for autoattacks (dot on 2 plus aa on another) then remove lock-on and position in the back half of my targeted enemies hit box to maximize my range, then it's PB b4b IR rockbreaker spam. After the 5 rockbreakers it's back to judging enemy hp and deciding to use arm of the destroyer or not. The tp cost is so huge that I prefer 6+ enemies (or if elemental sprite type enemy is tearing through a tank during a large dungeon pull then I may use it help silence a few attacks so heals can catch up)I'm sure it's not the best aoe rotation but it works well. Monks are still primarily single target so if another job can easily aoe let them and just assist with rb. Don't be afraid to burn tp. It will build up during the next pull. What good is finishing a large pull with 500+ tp with invigorate unused. Usually if you run out it's because the other dps didn't aoe (adjust accordingly)

[Issachar]

Nin AoE isn't bad or anywhere near, when proper rotation is applied. Doton + Death Blossom + Huton = yeah baby.

[Krr]

Nin AoE isn't bad or anywhere near, when proper rotation is applied. Doton + Death Blossom + Huton = yeah baby.

Don't forget Katon->Kassatsu->Doton in there!