The Wyrmking vs. Thordan

[treuhavik]

That's why I don't think we will be taking a specific side but rather wrestling with both sides to finally end the conflict.

Someone's already tried this and they ended up playing host to a primal entity. We'll have to do a much better job than said person if we plan to avoid what the Ascians seem to want us for. We'll probably end up playing right into their hands as usual though.


On another note, I feel as though the Ascians gained control over the theocracy 15-17 years ago, when Ishgard withdrew from the Eorzean Alliance - having Ishgard instead focus on continuing the endless conflict, rather than helping the realm as a whole, and hopefully bringing rise to two more primals.

[Belhi]

Iceheart frankly didn't seem to have been particularly neutral. We really don't know her relations to the Dragons. Her solution to the war seems to have been to tip the balance in the favour of the Dravanians. While this would deal with the corruption within Ishgard it would probably involve the devastation of Ishgard and the slaughter of its people. Considering that little prophecy thing we got awhile back from Yoshi-P I think we need an intact Ishgard purged of the Ascians influence.

"To naught but the Ivory Spear shall ebon mail yield, Yet Her point remains ever trained upon scales of black. Peer deep into the dust which swirls in our wakes, And know the bloody dance of the light and dark to be everlasting."

From that last line, also suspect the Ascians have had their hand in Ishgard's affairs for centuries, perhaps since the beginning. We may yet discover the same is true for the Dravanians too.

[treuhavik]

The way I interpret that quote; Ishgard's victory(?) against the Dravanian Horde. "dust which swirls in our wake" is alluding to the dragon(s) taking flight, signaling resolution, and when said dust settles, we'll know what caused this tireless conflict. The war between Hydaelyn and Zodiark has, and will continue to, claim many casualties.

Neither side is good nor bad, both just pawns being manipulated by the Ascians against Hydaelyn.

It's anyone guess as to when the corruption began, I just find Ishgard's withdrawal suspicious...

[Balipu]

Aye. In fact, Midgarsormr is supposedly the first dragon and sired seven sons.

And we will meat all seven of them. Yoshie-P mentioned in the PAX presentation that the story will deal with the seven evil wyrmkings

[Fenral]

"Evil" was the interpreter's goof, though. Yoshi-P said nothing about them being evil.

[Nalien]

And we will meat all seven of them. Yoshie-P mentioned in the PAX presentation that the story will deal with the seven evil wyrmkings

Guess that puts the idea that Bahamut was Midgardsormrs son to rest... Unless we're going to deal with him again through some means, but I'm doubting that somewhat.

I'm sticking to my theory;

• The Twelve were Allag Warrior of Light who survived Xandes Calamity and helped people to the point they were transformed into Gods/Eikons by history.
• Midgardsormr came after/around the same time as Xandes Calamity (perhaps as a survivor of Meracydia). An agreement was met between him and the Warriors of Light (who represent Hydaelyn, hence that connection) for him to protect Allag relics and prevent their misuse. Specifically Crystal Tower.
• He fathered seven sons, Nidhogg being one who was charged with protecting the Allag Sky Fortress. Nidhogg now calls for help as Ishgard proceeds with their plans, resulting in the Rising Chorus.
• Ishgards first sin was taking the location which acts as a path to this fortress, which Nidhogg was originally controlling/guarding. The second mistake they are about to make, is going there and activating it. They want to for religious/war reasons (either to reach their promised land (similar to the Covenant in Halo?), or to wipe out the dragons, or both). Ascians are helping them because activating it will cause enough Chaos to bring about a Rejoining or whatever. Dragons want to stop Ishgard because common sense.
• Midgardsormr guarded the Lake, which was actually Crystal Towers resting place. Garleans work on Bozja Citadel pre-1.0 in an attempt to recreate Crystal Tower and bring down Dalamud, then they move for Mor Dhona when that fails. Thus Midgardsormr acts resulting in the Battle for Silvertear Skies. He ultimately failed, which is why he can now absolve that contract since there is no real reason for him to guard the area anymore; Instead he will guard us, the new Warriors of Light.

[Anonymoose]

<theory>

I'm still trying to figure out if the game is implying that Midgardsormr has been around since at least the start of the cycle of the eras. I mean, for one, his name means World Serpent. But then you have little things here and there such as this from the German:

Am Anbeginn gewährte Hydaelyn mir Schutz und Licht. Mir steht nicht zu, mich über ihre Wahl zu stellen.
At the beginning, Hydaelyn granted me protection and light. I have no place to put myself before Her choice.

[Nalien]

I'm still trying to figure out if the game is implying that Midgardsormr has been around since at least the start of the cycle of the eras. I mean, for one, his name means World Serpent. But then you have little things here and there such as this from the German:

For me, I just can't get my head around what he was doing during the Allagans reign if he predates them. I'm given to disregard his name, given Jourmangand (and Thor) show up in World of Darkness with no importance, and the German could be interpreted in various ways (at the beginning of time, at the beginning of current events, etc.).

Bozja Citadel and Project Meteor all tying back to Crystal Tower as reasoning for Midgardsormr taking out the Agrius just really works for me. Mor Dhona being created by the Twelve as the center of the world and source of all aether (power)? For the Allag Crystal Tower was the center of their Empire and source of its power. Were he guarding the place during their reign... Either he is incompetent and just didn't care about the Voidgate-opening-Tower being built (or his heirs war?) or we're missing some epic battle that went on, but I have no context for that.

Then there are the Allagan Runestones... Basic stone carvings either fit the Allags early years, or follow the Calamity. The fact that Dalamud features on one of the Runestones tells me they came after. Either the surviving Allag created the Twelve or turned back to religion following their fall, which is certainly possible I'll admit. The quote on the Triple Triad card for Urianger also puts me in the mind that The Twelve were just the old Warriors of Light; "Truth interpreted is truth transformed. Today's heroes may yet become tomorrow's gods...or something else.", also perhaps explaining Primal origins (the "something else"). Previous Warriors of Light, heroes of the past, make a pact with Midgardsormr as Hydaelyns representatives, history interprets events over and over until they become gods.

[Balipu]

"Evil" was the interpreter's goof, though. Yoshi-P said nothing about them being evil.

Them not being evil makes more sense. Midy doesnt act like an antagonist. By the by this interpreter girl made a lot of blunders. It was especially noticable as an interpreter. It shows that YOshi-P usually goes with Koji. They work well together. Still she was very cute.

[Waffilicious]

Some weird tidbits i got that dragons aren't evil just outright pissed off is that when you defeat shiva she says "Dear please forgive them" meaning she tried and failed to stop the war.

Ascians being in control of every thing is clear in the final cutscene of the 2.4? there is the scene when they put the holy pope and behind his throne is an ascian smiling.

This expansion will bring to light that neither side is good or bad and war is messy.