It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Bishop81]

That doesn't mean we should be adding more ways.

I believe the point is, people are going to buy gil one way or another. They do so now and they will continue to do so with or without SE's "blessing".

Now that I think about it, it's kind of like the Prohibition of the 1920s in the US. Gangsters became filthy rich manufacturing and trafficking booze. But when it ended in 1933 and everyone could legally get in on the market, their income dried up. Is booze good for you? Hell no. Was the Prohibition a good idea? I don't know. But it definitely was good for the gangsters.[1]

On one hand, I agree with you on principle, that RL money should have zero influence on achieving game objectives/rewards. On the other, we have a cash shop that give the RL rich cooler crap than the rest of us "peasants" while gil/gold selling is alive and well in just about every MMO - WoW has been fighting it for over 8 years.

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[1] The ban on buying gil with RL money is kind of like the Prohibition. RMT has a monopoly on RL money to gil conversions, just like the gangster had a monopoly on alcohol production and sales. People still bought gil, just like people back then still drank alcohol. Gangsters got rich because of their monopoly, just like RMT is getting rich now.

PLEX basically legalize gil buying with RL money - without minting more gil and flooding the economy - where every buyer of PLEX is effectively a gil seller. Without their monopoly, RMT's income will drop, just like the post-1933 gangsters.

[Duuude007]

Now that I think about it, it's kind of like the Prohibition of the 1920s in the US.

Oh, because it was a legal right at one time for anyone to partake in, then a few leaders decided to take peoples' right to partake, to the point that those same leaders were forced to back out of the policy change and return things back to the way they were.

Yeah... Incredible comparison.

/sarcasm

[Bishop81]

Oh, because it was a legal right at one time for anyone to partake in, then a few leaders decided to take peoples' right to partake, to the point that those same leaders were forced to back out of the policy chnge and return things back to the way they were.

Yeah... Incredible comparison.

/sarcasm

The results are the same.

Gangsters/RMT got rich, despite the authorities' best efforts at wiping them out. Do you want those bastards to continue making money like they have over the last decades?

Principles are great and all, but results are what matter.

[Duuude007]

Do you want those bastards to continue making money like they have over the last decades?

Would you want SE to dishonor their status as a successful MMO producer by supporting the same money making scheme they are? Really? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is their flagship game, the key reason their company was able to be profitable the past couple years. And your suggestion is for them to betray our trust by doing exactly what they are combating others from doing... right. Genius.

Principles are great and all, but results are what matter.

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" isn't merely the abandonment of principle, it is symbolic of a company caring more about the bottom line than their customers. Yoshida has time and time again inferred that he would rather the game be shuttered than betray our trust to the level of 1.0 (or worse) once again.

And you speak of results. Sure, the development team is working on a more effective means to prevent the spamming of ads through tells, and when that is managed, a great deal of their potential business will have been mitigated. But that isn't all that they are doing. By far.



I would rather them fight the good fight than pull a Benedict Arnold. I am certain I am not alone in this.

[Bishop81]

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" isn't merely the abandonment of principle, it is symbolic of a company caring more about the bottom line than their customers.

No, it's called being pragmatic.

The fact that it will hurt RMT is even more awesome.

Feel free to be principled in your fantasyland, we here in the real world want solutions. PLEX is the lesser of 2 evils. The less money in the hands of those bastard RMTs, the better.

[Duuude007]

The fact that it will hurt RMT is even more awesome.

You keep claiming this as fact. Most of what I seen here has been anecdotal at best. Being applied to a completely different game design using entirely different scenarios, at worst.

If you have something 'factual' to challenge us with, perhaps some citations to back up the 'stories' your... 'majority' is trying to sell us.

[Bishop81]

You keep claiming this as fact. Most of what I seen here has been anecdotal at best. Being applied to a completely different game design using entirely different scenarios, at worst.

If you have something 'factual' to challenge us with, perhaps some citations to back up the 'stories' your... 'majority' is trying to sell us.

Elementary my dear ... Duuude007.

A PLEX type system basically allows anyone to be a gil seller. When you buy a game-time token and pay for it in gil, you are effectively selling gil. The more sellers of gil there are, the lower the price of gil. RMT earns less.

Right now RMT has a monopoly on RL money to gil conversion. With a PLEX system, their monopoly will be broken.

Anything that will screw over those RMT spamming bastards is a positive in my book.

[Tiggy]

You don't understand what "anecdotal evidence" means do you.

What I have written isn't "evidence". It's an argument.

Well you DID quote this..

You keep claiming this as fact. Most of what I seen here has been anecdotal at best. Being applied to a completely different game design using entirely different scenarios, at worst.

If you have something 'factual' to challenge us with, perhaps some citations to back up the 'stories' your... 'majority' is trying to sell us.

So it seems pretty obvious you were trying to offer non anecdotal evidence since he was specifically asking for some evidence that wasn't anecdotal. Then you feel free to asnwer with what you then defend as an "arguement"? Why even respond if you aren't going to give him the info he was asking for? Are you surprised he pointed out it was still anecdotal? It's like you didn't even read what he said at all, and specifically that you don't seem to understand what Anecdotal Evidence means. Have a read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[1][2] Anecdotal evidence is considered dubious support of a generalized claim; it is, however, perfectly acceptable for claims regarding a particular instance

It describes much of the support for a Plex system in this thread rather well. By definition this thread is riddled with anecdotal evidence. I've made attempts to ask for evidence and supporting data but they have been consistently ignored in favor of spouting further anecdotal evidence.

What I have written isn't "evidence".

This was literally the point he was making. GG. Too many people in this thread arguing opinions. Not enough evidence. I don't care about your opinion. I care about where this has worked before, how well, and why you think it would work better or as well here. I could literally care less about your opinion. Facts are all I want to work in. Actual tangible examples of real life data. However, that seems difficult for people in this thread to produce because as far as I can tell it doesn't exist.

[Aldora]

No, it's called being pragmatic.

The fact that it will hurt RMT is even more awesome.

Feel free to be principled in your fantasyland, we here in the real world want solutions. PLEX is the lesser of 2 evils. The less money in the hands of those bastard RMTs, the better.

But it’s still “Evil” nonetheless. If you want to battle RMT, you will not be doing so by “legalizing” it. It’s because of people that are buying gil that the whole RMT business exists in the first place.

By adding a “PLEX”-system, you are basically “giving up” the fight and “joining them”. At that point the RMT business has won the battle.

[tocsin]

At that point the RMT business has won the battle.

Honestly, what battle do you think the RMT is fighting? they fight to make money to profit ourselves. if SE takes up a PLEX system, then WE win, because that money will be going towards SE, to make the game better.

I have always been in support of a PLEX system, and will continue to be so. Pay to win may not be a 100% win, but if they win, and I win too (by getting a better game) im okay with that. Their winning doesn't affect me, but PLEX makes ME win, whether I buy it or not.