It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[AlexionSkylark]

I don't know how you went from people buying houses because they want one (which was clearly the context of his sentence) to people shelling out thousands and buying every plot. Escalate things much for no reason? Oh that's right. That how straw men are created. Keep what he said in context please since your over exaggerations don't really help.

Actually, that argument is not of my own crafting, it's chrillix's:

People who desperately want housing purchase a ton of tokens with real life money, sell them for gil, and buy up all the housing before people who want to earn gil in-game are able to do so and are able to afford to buy a house.

If you want to rebuke it, target it to the right person. Except I don't believe you would, since he's on the same side of the argument and you would have no reason to discredit someone who's arguing in your favor. But then again, I might be wrong. I'll give you the chance to correct your mistake.

You clearly have no idea how game economies work if you really think it wouldn't hurt the economy "in any way" and that you actually think it would lower inflation. That's really ignorant of how things actually work in the real world.

Citation needed. This is just an empty, passive-agressive response with no actual points given. The real argument is in the next quote, so it's best if I adress it where it's due:

This is why I know you don't understand how economies work. Inflation happens when too much money is spread around the economy. Why other people have too much money they are more willing to spend it on items which in turn makes the price of goods increase. That is literally inflation.

And that's how YOU prove you don't know nothing about economics. I could say I laughed at your statement, but that would be me being passive-agressive, and I rather not step to that level. Anyhow, Let me give you an Economics 101 about it, since you clearly have no idea: Inflation, in general, is devaluing of currency, most often because of an oversupply of money in the system. As the laws of supply and demand tells us, if you have too much of a thing available, its value lessens. When that happens to MONEY, that's called inflation. It's not the value of stuff that went up, it's your money that's worth less and the prices went up to make up for it. In the real world, it happens, among other reasons, when governments print too much money, something that happens for a multitude of reasons that do not pertain to that discussion.

ANYHOW, in MMOs, inflation is kept at check with a careful balance of money fountains (ways money is created out of nothing into the game, like quests, mob drops, etc.) and money sinks (ways money is ERASED from the game, like NPC shops, and house-buying). It's a system pretty well illustrated in laymen's terms in a wonderful and didatic video by the guys at Extra Credits, available on youtube right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

The TL: DR; of this topic is: people hoarding gil are much more hurtful to the economy that your so-called "distribution" of gil, which is actually healthy. The 1%ers have a tendency to turn everything in-game into a luxury market, excluding most people from the markets and inflating prices to unbeliavable levels. You really cannot argue that 2.5 million gil for a 2-star crafting material is a sign of a healthy economy.

Now, I'm just gonna reiterate my argument, for the sake of staying on topic, that PLEX would help the economy by taking money that would be piling up in someone's wallet, and giving it to someone who will most likely spend it on a money sink, erasing that sum of gil from the economy and helping lower inflation. Now check that argument against your new-found knowledge, and understand what I was really talking about. No need to thank me.

This is a distraction. Trying to put up that other person as a paragon of selfishness when the first crime is you not understand how MMO economies work. As you showed us with the previous examples.

Actually, it is what it is: an 1%er trying to keep his clubhouse exclusive. Nothing more, nothing less.

[chrillix]

Actually, that argument is not of my own crafting, it's chrillix's:



If you want to rebuke it, target it to the right person. Except I don't believe you would, since he's on the same side of the argument and you would have no reason to discredit someone who's arguing in your favor. But then again, I might be wrong. I'll give you the chance to correct your mistake.

In my example, I did not mean one person buying up an entire ward. That is actually *almost* impossible. I mean't several PLEX buyers, each buying their own plot.

[Tiggy]

If you want to rebuke it, target it to the right person. Except I don't believe you would, since he's on the same side of the argument and you would have no reason to discredit someone who's arguing in your favor. But then again, I might be wrong. I'll give you the chance to correct your mistake.

No, I meant you. His sentence is clearly referring to people in the sense of an individual in the crowd. And specifically one who is desperate enough to buy something like Plex just to buy a house. He in no way suggested a single person would spend thousands and becoming a housing mogul. That was all you taking what he said out of context and to an extreme.

Even Chrillix backs this up. You were incorrect in your interpretation of his words.

In my example, I did not mean one person buying up an entire ward. That is actually *almost* impossible. I mean't several PLEX buyers, each buying their own plot.

Citation needed. This is just an empty, passive-agressive response with no actual points given. The real argument is in the next quote, so it's best if I adress it where it's due:

Do you have difficulty reading the entire document before writing up these little blurbs. Read the whole thing and respond. No reason to pick 1 sentence out and comment about how it fails to do something I said a few lines later. I separated it into 2 quotes to make a line of reasoning and for emphasis. Keep up. I know it's tough.

Inflation, in general, is devaluing of currency, most often because of an oversupply of money in the system. As the laws of supply and demand tells us, if you have too much of a thing available, its value lessens. When that happens to MONEY, that leads to inflation.

Did you even read what I said?

When other people have too much money they are more willing to spend it on items which in turn makes the price of goods increase. That is literally inflation.

The price of goods increase because of the devaluation of the money. I said exactly what you said but I didn't go to a text book first. I doesn't make what I said a less accurate depiction of inflation and you any less nit picky to try and act like what I said doesn't describe inflation.

In the real world, it happens, among other reasons, when governments print too much money

Like literally what this thread is trying to do?

Actually, it is what it is: an 1%er trying to keep his clubhouse exclusive. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't have a house and don't want one. Keep making assumptions though. Just because I disagree with your premise doesn't immediately make me a memeber of your '1%.' That's a flat out assumption and blatant logical fallacy on your part. Disagreeing with you makes me nothing more and nothing less than simply a person disagreeing with you.

Seems like a serious series reading comprehension fails here. Not just at what I said but at what others have said.

I also find it funny how often you call me passive aggressive when I explicitly came here, quoted you, and called you out on specific details in a very direct clearly not passive manner. Do you even know what passive aggressive means?

[NolLacnala]

Exchangeable game time is actually one of the most effective means to combating RMT, as it sets a standard value to in-game currency based around it. Gil sellers would be forced to match the value or lose business to SE's legit trade.

[AlexionSkylark]

Read the whole thing and respond. No reason to pick 1 sentence out and comment

Oh, you mean, like you started doing? This thread is going places...

Like literally what this thread is trying to do?

WHAT??????
No, no, stop the presses. Please, enlighten me on how PLEX would be considered a money fountain. You had my interest, now you have my curiosity. Please, tell me how exactly a system designed around the TRANSFER of money from one player to another would CREATE money into the system. I'm really curious.

Also, your argument about inflation is akin to saying that in the real world, a middle class with more buying power hurts the economy and causes inflation. That, sir, was priceless. I'm actually starting to believe you're a 1%er in real life.

[Tiggy]

Oh, you mean, like you started doing? This thread is going places..

I separated it into 2 quotes to make a line of reasoning and for emphasis. Keep up. I know it's tough.

Do you even forum? This isn't new or unique. I tire of the childlike way you want to nitpick everything but the substance of the argument. Even now you ignore all the inconvenient parts of the response and fail to acknowledge even the slightest fault you've clearly made.

WHAT??????
No, no, stop the presses. Please, enlighten me on how PLEX would be considered a money fountain. You had my interest, now you have my curiosity. Please, tell me how exactly a system designed around the TRANSFER of money from one player to another would CREATE money into the system. I'm really curious.

Also, your argument about inflation is akin to saying that in the real world, a middle class with more buying power hurts the economy and causes inflation. That, sir, was priceless. I'm actually starting to believe you're a 1%er in real life.

This thread is clearly and explicitly asking for a Flex style system right?

https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/

The first words you see across the page. "BUY PLEX, USE PLEX SERVICES, TRADE PLEX FOR ISK"

My point is made. I'm out.

[AlexionSkylark]

Oh, c'mon, I still wanted to hear about how those damn liberals are about to send Eorzea into recession!

If i'd take a guess, I'd say you started playing in Ul'Dah, right? Send Lord Lolorito my compliments
But then again, I tought all Monetarists were Lalafells...

EDIT: Oh yeah, Godbert is human. Fair enough.

[Tiggy]

Oh, c'mon, I still wanted to hear about how those damn liberals are about to send Eorzea into recession!

If i'd take a guess, I'd say you started playing in Ul'Dah, right? Send Lord Lolorito my compliments
But then again, I tought all Monetarists were Lalafells...

EDIT: Oh yeah, Godbert is human. Fair enough.

Wow man. Turning to insults now? That work out often for you when you aren't making a good case?

I started in Gridania, still live in Gridania, have less than 1 mil to my name, don't have a house, and don't intend to buy a house. Stop making assumptions about people solely because they disagree with you.

[sydh]

No. A "EVE Plex" type system would never work in this game. It works for EVE because there is a massive economy that is a major part of the game. You can play this game and never open the market board to sell anything... ever! A Plex system is a wonderful idea as an alternative payment system but not for FFXIV:ARR. This is coming from playing EVE for 2 to 3 years and spend over half of that paid by Plex.

[NinjaTaru72]

Exchangeable game time is actually one of the most effective means to combating RMT, as it sets a standard value to in-game currency based around it. Gil sellers would be forced to match the value or lose business to SE's legit trade.

I'll quote myself for you

I worry this would promote rmt more actually.

Look at it this way.

(on my server)
Platinum wedding cost 25$.
People sell it for 2-3m(from what I've heard.)

Plex would be $15(just to make it easy)

So would sell for (assumably) around 800-1.5m

RMT sell 1m for like 5$.

*this would cause something like this next statement to happen*

"OK so I am poor. I can out 5$ to rmt for 1m and buy a month of game that would be 15$. Let's just do that every month."

This now rmt is now getting more money and putting more shouts/bits in our game.


So I say no thanks to Plex.

THIS is what would end up happening, could promise it.