So I was kicked from Halatali today

[Alex_Lenderson]

You shouldn't of gotten kicked but optimal play has healers adding some DPS. When I'm on my healer I do occasionally just heal when I'm feeling lazy but that's just it... laziness. Granted every situation IS different depending on what you are running, what your group composition is and how new/undergeared/overgeared people are but you should get a feel for that in the first fight or two of a dungeon.

[Elysaine]

Not only that, but with my only spells being Medica, Esuna and Cure with a Raise that can only be cast outside of combat, it's best when I take it easy.

In places like Satasha I only have Physick myself. Conjurers/Whitemages get all the good spells much earlier. My Scholar is 36 and just got Succor (Medica counterpart) at 35. Still don't have my Esuna counterpart..
Thank God I have Eos. She takes care of a lot of the healing required with her Embraces and Whispering Dawns. Usually I only have to occassionally throw out a Physick. Rest of the time I spend dotting up mobs.

[Laesha]

I used to go out of my way to dps as a healer, but no more. That's not to say I don't do so from time to time (often even), but too often it goes entirely unappreciated. I think the OP's situation is a good example of this. It seems to go one or two steps beyond current attitudes, but it's basically the same. What should be seen as gravy-dps is overly-expected. I mean, a kick - really? ridiculous. Unless I see players going so far out of their way to use x-class abilities to contribute extra, (blms virusing, bards mantraing etc...) I feel no pressure to go above and beyond whatsoever, and you probably shouldn't either.

Beyond that, if you aren't comfortable dps'ing, you definitely shouldn't. Your job is to keep the party standing. If the dungeon progress is going too slow for your crappy dps, that's their problem and they need to deal with it. You do not need to pick up their slack. It's not your job to help them meet some sort of unspoken, undefinable, "time spent:reward" ratio. In a static raid situation, this topic can be broached sensibly and logically. Expectations can be set and met for all the members of your raid group, but with rand-o's, in random dungeon content - pshhhh. I mean really, chances of running into these ppl again are slim, and remembering them in the event that you do is even slimmer. I don't care at all about how fast they want to run a dungeon. I don't care at all how they'd play a class at any given time. I'm not going to worry about going the extra mile to be rewarded with 0 coms. lol. If they want a healer who dps's in their dungeon run, they can roll as a healer. Or, hey, if they want to watch netflix between cures, they can roll a healer and only heal too. The option is theirs. Also people have good days and bad days. That sch on "follow" who sometimes throws out a physic could be on T13 parsing higher than you. :P He might just not be in the mood.

Besides, what's the worst that will happen? They'll kick you, then you'll rejoin in-progress and they'll still have you. lol.

[Cynfael]

This thread is full of a lot of the same strange (and sometimes downright detrimental) ideas that most "healer DPS" threads contain. I'll try to stick to the important points and not write a book. Most of it has been said to some degree or another in this same thread.

1. DPS is a party-wide responsibility that includes the tank and healer roles. Arguing that healers should not leverage their DPS because SMN and BLM are not expected heal is silly if you think about it for more than a moment. The reason SMN and BLM are not expected to heal is because their heals A) tie up their GCD, preventing them from performing their primary function efficiently and B) simply aren't needed. Healer DPS, on the other hand, is actually helpful because A) it's not insignificant and B) there's rarely such a thing as too much raid damage. SCH and even WHM (*cough* Regen) have tools that enable them to perform their primary function effectively as they contribute damage.

2. Healers who do not need to heal should be doing something useful. The useful non-healing activity of choice is most often DPSing.

3. Again, healer DPS can make a huge difference in all content. People who suggest that healer DPS is insignificant either have never witnessed a decent healer go to work or are doing it wrong themselves.

In any case, to the OP: kicking you was rude and rather extreme. I don't advocate kicking players simply for not wanting to play outside of their comfort zone.

[ShaneDawn]

Well, it all depends on the situation. Whenever I have new people, I test them out in a few pulls. If they can hold their own (tanks holding aggro, dps not aggroing everything) stancedancing shouldn't be a problem. In dungeons like Snowcloak where tanks do big pulls of heavy hitting mobs you should mainly focus on healing and only Holy when you have the opportunity to. However, kicking you out of a dungeon gor not dpsng is outright rude and should not be a thing.

[Llyren]

Hmm.

I think you should of immediately initiated a vote kick against that dps. I'll vote kick a dps over a healer any day.

I think abandon is the correct choice if you can't stand the healer or tank.

[Lyzern]

Hey Sir, if you don't think the primary job of a healer is to heal then your priorities are out of place. While you were being sarcastic in response to my post, your rebuttal needs a bit more thought. You already succeeded in being sub optimal wearing that Daystar gear.

Also you're wrong about holy, it's 3.0 s cast time not 2.5. Cleric stance doesn't "make you deal as much damage as you heal". Its not that absolute. I've never hit a 5000+ stone 2. However I do with cure 2.

Maybe get passed turn 8 then come back and talk about being optimal.

It's amazing the lengths of stalking people will do just because they get defensive when they get counter-argued about ^^


I can assure you that I am able to heal through any content I've cleared and still be twice as useful as a WHM in full dreadwyrm that doesn't do damage. And this sentence should just shut you up on any "zomg T8 lelelele, zomg u hav daystar gloves, git gud scrub, roflcopterino". Not to mention gloves are one of the weakest equipment you can wear and the difference is minimal.

I won't bother looking through your lodestone and crap like that because that's just sad, really. But let's say you cleared T13 and are on full dreadwyrm equipment. If you don't believe healers should do damage when everyone is a full health, you're just a plain bad healer and there's no gear that will ever save you from that.

And don't try to be technical on the cleric stance thing, you know that I'm talking about magic attack potency. If we had 600 potency damage spells, then yes, what you said would make sense.

[ChiiSoSeriouz]

It's not stalking sir don't flatter yourself. I typically look at a players lodestone after they post something grossly sarcastic, most times their gear and experience on the job they're criticizing is laughable.

You're assuming I don't do damage, because I told op its his prerogative to do so or not. So you're wrong again. I would hope you can heal through Turn 7 and one day 8, although it has been nerfed significantly so you do have that going for you.

As far as comparing yourself to me or any other healer with dreadwyrm and t13 clears, let's be real sir you're nowhere near that level, that "twice as usefull" was good for a laugh though.

[Yumi_umi]

Premade dungeon party scum lol
Either they all agreed to kick as a group or they just said yes for the hell of it lol.
Just press aero once and call it a day.
Ur doing dps and won't have to stance dance.
If they still complain that u r not "doing enough dps" then u can tell then to fck off lol cuz ur already dpsing so y ask for more?

[Lyzern]

It's not stalking sir don't flatter yourself. I typically look at a players lodestone after they post something grossly sarcastic, most times their gear and experience on the job they're criticizing is laughable.

You're assuming I don't do damage, because I told op its his prerogative to do so or not. So you're wrong again. I would hope you can heal through Turn 7 and one day 8, although it has been nerfed significantly so you do have that going for you.

As far as comparing yourself to me or any other healer with dreadwyrm and t13 clears, let's be real sir you're nowhere near that level, that "twice as usefull" was good for a laugh though

Again with the elitist counter-arguments because you have nothing else to defend yourself with? Ok! What's laughable is that you keep using the same arguments and responses over and over just because you beat a small part of the game. You keep thinking that T13 is the pinnacle of the game, "sir", if that'll boost your ego. You should be worshipped permanently for beating such a hard fight of the game. Congratulations! Ur da bes'!

(You're still not giving the OP any good advice by telling him to report the others instead of being optimal, so that one day he could be half as good as you, O' best healer ever)

Aaaand, if you're gonna reply to this again saying how lol I didn't even beat T8 yet, how about you try to ignore that and focus on the real argument here? Because this isn't an e-peen contest, this is a real discussion of how a WHM should act and be optimal.