Warrior Parry - yay or nay.

[SpookyGhost]

You wear full STR accessories in T13 because you have the left side pieces to compensate the VIT loss. You wouldn't do the same with full i110 pieces on the left, for example. You also have to be at least average at WAR to get away with having less VIT, some WARs forget to mitigate and end up eating the floor. You're right that there's no reason to ever use full VIT, I haven't since 2.0 and it hasn't affected me at all. Crafted accessories are really the way to go until you can manage all content in full STR, but that assumes you raid and all that. At this point, with both Carbons in Hunts and the CT quest, you might as well use a few STR accessories as well. But yeah, a lot of WARs suck out there and need all the VIT they can muster - it's pretty unfortunate.

[Ele_Pls]

You wear full STR accessories in T13 because you have the left side pieces to compensate the VIT loss.

Yeah, I think there's a minimum HP requirement for content and after you reach that anything extra should be converted into STR.

[Izsha]

Nay I say! Again I say nay!

[MythToken]

That is far too ignorant a statement to be taken seriously.

My 186 crit and 99 det from gear alone accounts for roughly 70 points of strength.
If secondaries don't matter, then 70 points of strength doesn't matter.
If 70 points of strength doesn't matter, then you might as well say your entire accessory set doesn't matter.

The difference in damage between a vit/parry warrior and a crit/det warrior are staggering.

I was not implying to remove all of the secondaries off of the gear. I was simply saying worrying about what gear has what in the end makes little difference. Just equipping the highest ilvl gear that is most readily available to you, will get you where you need to go, and won't be far off of the stats that you just stated.

You are also implying that I was comparing a Vit/parry to a STr/crit/det, which is not at all what was stated. Nor what I was comparing. be it all Vit or Vit/Str left side. Just take the highest i lvl gear and don't worry about the secondaries.

I am also not suggesting stacking parry. I am again saying just take what you can get with the highest ilvl. And you will end up with a mix of stats that are good enough.

The majority of players are not Min/Max ers, and the difference in a mix of all stats vs max det/crit is very insignificant for them, and really anyone else. It would also serve them better to forget about BiS since the length of time it would require to reach BiS is pretty unrealistic. And they would be far better off pursuing the fastest upgrades available each week.

To the OP, parry is the weakest of 2ndaries, but really in the end it doesn't matter if you go with a mix of 2ndaries. The only thing I would not do is stack parry specifically.

[Kazumac]

Having healed both, I find the biggest difference in squishyness is tank skill. Cooldown usage and mechanic understanding makes the tank squishy or not. I've healed Vit parry tanks who feel like paper and str tanks that feel like solid rocks. A full parry build is so marginal on damage reduction due to percent gains per point in parry it hardly seems to matter on paper or in practice. When my group's tank switches out to dps accessories, the only thing I notice is that their max hp is marginally lower.

If a tank feels squishy in a dungeon run its most likely bad cooldown use by the tank and/or the healer.

[Kuwagami]

That its a good enough (13 for 1%) investment stat-wise and that "going full dps stats is only a 20-30dps increase" compared to full parry.

Yeah... no. the gain is more like 100 parry for 1%

Totally worthless to stack it. accept the parry you can't get rid of, but don't stack it

[Ashkendor]

Honestly, as a healer... How many of you pro strength tanks have actually tried to heal a str tank vs a parry tank in a speed run or in raid? And tell me there is no difference. Because if you're saying there isn't a difference between having one or the other stay then 99% of str tanks are bad tanks from what I've seen. And squishy. And annoying to heal. And I'm a really good healer FYI. I've maybe encountered a handful of str tanks that knew what they were doing as both a tank and providing additional dps. Tank first. If you can't do that then what are you even doing running that role to begin with. It's the same thing as all the crappy healers I keep seeing prioritizing dps over keeping the party alive. You have a primary role. If you wanna dps, roll a dps. My point is if you can pull it off great, but most people can't.

The thread is about secondary stats, but I'll bite anyway. I've healed both STR tanks and VIT tanks and haven't noticed too much difference in most content. FCoB has hp thresholds that you have to meet, but aside from that a well geared tank with STR accessories is more than enough for pretty much everything in the game. Half the time you don't even need your tanking stance as long as you use your cooldowns correctly. Pentamelded accessories are very helpful since you get the damage boost and maintain most of your HP, but piling parry atop HP atop more HP is a waste of stat points that could do more good elsewhere, like boosting your damage.

If you want to get technical, Parry is marginally more useful for Warriors than Paladins (since block procs first) but that just means it's marginally less sucky. It's still the least useful secondary stat when you get down to it. Don't get me wrong, SS and Acc have diminishing returns, but that's just it - Parry doesn't even have that. It's not all that useful no matter how much of it you have. I went from Acc/Parry on my Excalibur/Aegis to Acc/Crit/Det and the healers in my static noticed absolutely zero difference in healing me. You can't count on Parry to save you from big damage (or even autoattacks) because it's RNG. The moment you rely on it will be the moment that RNGesus will let you die so that he can laugh at your corpse. :3

[Gaza]

In my opinion parry is slightly better for progression/learning groups in endgame content than the other secondary stats. Don't get me wrong I don't think parry is all that great, but when it comes to learning a fight I'll take as much damage mitigation as I possibly can, even as little and unreliable as it may be.

The biggest argument I hear against parry is that tanks and healers know when the big attacks are incoming and buff/shield appropriately so that if the attack is parried it simply leads to overhealing. Or that the damage throughout the fight is so consistent that any parry is pointless. However this is based on the assumption that the group is playing perfectly and has mastered the fight. For most progression groups I imagine this just is not the case at all, tanks and healers both need to get a feel for the fight and learn their rotations. While in this process there will be plenty of moments that will call for extra healing, and any time you parry will make things that little bit easier.

Once your group has had enough practice and reached the point that you feel comfortable with going with more str/det/crt then by all means if you want to go for it. That's the way I've gone about things and I like to push as much dps as I can. However unless the content is new and you're undergeared if you ever feel as a tank that str/det/crt become a necessity because the group cannot beat the enrage, then the fault most likely lies with the dps and not the tanks.

Lastly on this subject beggars can't be choosers, and unless you can afford melded accessories your gear is more than likely going to be loaded with parry anyway and there's not much you can do about it.

[Noxifer]

Doesn't the description say for Det it effects healing received? Or is that just if you cure yourself?

Well, it says 'as well as the amount of HP restored by healing spells', which is really fuzzily worded. But yeah, it's HP restored by healing spells you cast. Not healing spells landing on you.

[SpookyGhost]

In my opinion parry is slightly better for progression/learning groups in endgame content than the other secondary stats. Don't get me wrong I don't think parry is all that great, but when it comes to learning a fight I'll take as much damage mitigation as I possibly can, even as little and unreliable as it may be.

This greatly depends on what you're wiping to. On the first pull where you know 0 of the mechanics, Parry does help a lot. But if you run into a DPS problem rather than a mitigation one, DET and Crit suddenly become more valuable than Parry. Parry certainly has it's place, it was great in T13 progression due to minimizing the amount of healing needed on the MT as much as possible to allow the healers to DPS more (this took absolute maximization to see any results, bare in mind), but this had nothing to do with the big attacks. Once you learn Flatten is the "tank buster", you pop a CD every time that cast bar happens. Speaking of that,

The biggest argument I hear against parry is that tanks and healers know when the big attacks are incoming and buff/shield appropriately so that if the attack is parried it simply leads to overhealing. Or that the damage throughout the fight is so consistent that any parry is pointless. However this is based on the assumption that the group is playing perfectly and has mastered the fight. For most progression groups I imagine this just is not the case at all, tanks and healers both need to get a feel for the fight and learn their rotations. While in this process there will be plenty of moments that will call for extra healing, and any time you parry will make things that little bit easier.

This is only true of WAR. PLD's CDs are off the GCD, which is why they're typically assigned MT during progression (among other reasons, but this is one of them). If they see a cast bar, they'll pop a CD. WAR doesn't have this luxury as our main form of mitigation is IB, which sits on the GCD and is only available @ 5 Wrath. However, this means that we're likely OT, and that Crit/Det will help us significantly more than Parry due to us mainly hitting the boss without our tank stance. If the workload is 50/50 (see: T12?), then it becomes a bit confusing as to which is more important, especially in the named example where you'd have a balance of needing Parry for Revelation (as WAR at least) and Det/Crit for pushing as few Bennus as possible/killing them as quickly as possible/pushing phases as quickly as possible in general.

Only one group I know of used max Parry on their PLD, most of the others were full Det/Crit. I recall Lucrezia's WAR definitely stacked Det/Crit on their i110 pieces and Ruby accessories.