Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[ViviAnimus]

Why is the duration of something even an argument in the first place. The established thing is that SMN is outdamaged on every front and that needs to change. End of argument. There is no need to make them wait because it has been like this for several months. But you don't grant a buff based on the month, but based on the fact that its outdamaged. Jesus. And alright, I grant the Leviathan being a good fight for Summoner. I am glad you pointed out that it doesn't matter anyway. I didn't even know you could do that, so that's terrible on my part. Although I would still challenge him to tell us his numbers so I can compare them to mine in the future.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Re-start of argument.

I'm no coder but I'm sure its a little more complex than "SMN need more damage". They need to see how it will effect leveling, current, and future content. If it effects the design changes for the patch and it makes SMN OP or worse then they are now SE will have to deal with more SMN threads. And no one wants that.

[ViviAnimus]

And on that note, I am just going to back out from this. It's always the same boring and silly arguments that it's about the fights themselves man! Look, Levi EX might be the only fight where SMN truly beats BLM. Well done. T9 in my opinion is rather close. To keep coming back to movement is to understimate BLM potentional. You can use Final coil as a perfect example.
T10, they should be relatively close, but they're not. BLM beats SMN by a lot on that turn. Regardless of the fact that you can bane, have uptime during movement and charges.
T11, very movement heavy, yet BLM triumps again. Also, completely single target, so SMN should win, it doesn't.
T12, good fight for both classes, yet BLM wins again.
T13, highly favourable fight for SMN, yet BLM still wins again.

We'll see what SE decides. But for now, there is no reason to use a SMN on anything relevant. And it has been like this for quite a while now.

Of course it's more complex than SMN needs more damage, but they need more damage and that's simple. Even in fights that are highly favourable for SMN, BLM wins. In fights that are equally favourable, BLM shits on SMN and you can't have that. T10, again, is a perfectly example, where the top BLM DPS beats the top SMN by 80 DPS. Is this not a problem? When the conditions are the same, actually T10 is more favourable for SMN, and it gets shat on, then something is wrong. Then it has nothing to do with fight mechanics, because you can establish that they are favourable for both parties. That is an objective parameter that refutes this "complex" issue. It's not that complex.

[Viridiana]

For real or troll? xD

Being a huge burden to heal is a glaring difference.

SMN have not been below in DPS for patch after patch. And DRG in no world got fixed quickly.

27 October to 9 December. That was how long DRG was a burden in FCoB. That's a day over 5 weeks. Unless you're going to try to count all of SCoB or something. Meanwhile, SMN has been a burden for the last, oh, I dunno, 17 weeks. That's over three times as long. And Kona, you're still ignoring the fact that i130 gear was always going to solve DRG's being a burden.

Editing to add in times for WAR and BLM:

WAR was in a bad spot from launch to 2.1. 20 August to 14 December is 16 weeks. That's faster than SMN if SMN were fixed with tonight's maintenance. BLM was lacking in SCOB from 26 March to 7 July. That's less than 14 weeks; which, again, is faster than SMN would be if SMN were fixed tonight. And by comparison, DRG took 5 weeks. So, yes, compared to the other two, DRG was fixed quickly. And if SMN has to wait for 3.0 it'll be a bit over 20 weeks to fix one class.

[Orrias]

And on that note, I am just going to back out from this. It's always the same boring and silly arguments that it's about the fights themselves man! Look, Levi EX might be the only fight where SMN truly beats BLM. Well done. T9 in my opinion is rather close. To keep coming back to movement is to understimate BLM potentional. You can use Final coil as a perfect example.
T10, they should be relatively close, but they're not. BLM beats SMN by a lot on that turn. Regardless of the fact that you can bane, have uptime during movement and charges.
T11, very movement heavy, yet BLM triumps again. Also, completely single target, so SMN should win, it doesn't.
T12, good fight for both classes, yet BLM wins again.
T13, highly favourable fight for SMN, yet BLM still wins again.

We'll see what SE decides. But for now, there is no reason to use a SMN on anything relevant. And it has been like this for quite a while now.

Of course it's more complex than SMN needs more damage, but they need more damage and that's simple. Even in fights that are highly favourable for SMN, BLM wins. In fights that are equally favourable, BLM shits on SMN and you can't have that. T10, again, is a perfectly example, where the top BLM DPS beats the top SMN by 80 DPS. Is this not a problem? When the conditions are the same, actually T10 is more favourable for SMN, and it gets shat on, then something is wrong. Then it has nothing to do with fight mechanics, because you can establish that they are favourable for both parties. That is an objective parameter that refutes this "complex" issue. It's not that complex.

You've turned everything (stemming from me mentioning that there is a dps disparity between SMN and BLM (in FCoB) by ~40 dps), into a harangue. At no point have I been for SMN's being gimped, but at the same time (having played MMO's for a long enough time), I recognize the difficulty in balancing dps output amongst classes/jobs, and so, I expect that things will again change for future content.

In any case, it's at the point now where you think it's a 'pissing contest'. You come across as an utterly cantankerous person. Right from the get-go you were combative, and I suspect that any further posts by you will only be the same, if not worse. You have your opinions, and I have mine.

[ViviAnimus]

You have your opinions and I have mine is indifference. Nice strawman by the way. You started with being indifferent and accepting toward the 40+ DPS gap. Not only that, I apoligized in case I misread or represented, you never set that record straight. So to me, you started from a point of view that is absolute ludicrous and even slavish. To embrace the fact that you do less DPS on every front while having arguably inferior utility and definitely resource management is just wow. Although I must say that it is absolutely fantastic that we have established that Summoner does beat BLM on Levi EX. This is great, fantastic. Other than that, if you're no longer arguing with the things I say, might be best to leave it at that.

[Sen_Terrechant]

You can't balance a class by the top 5%, it needs to be done by the average players. Does smn need some work? Sure they do. Are they behind enough to warrant a change before an expansion? No.

Bullcrap. It should ALWAYS be balanced by the top %. Nobody else is actually pushing the class to the limit of what it can accomplish, nobody else can actually see how the class balances affect each other.

If you look at 'average' players right now, classes dont matter at all. Why? because they are average players, barely pushing content when it matters. They are players that need to outgear the content before they can even kill it.

Frankly, they dont matter in a class balance perspective.

[ChaozK]

27 October to 9 December. That was how long DRG was a burden in FCoB. That's a day over 5 weeks. Unless you're going to try to count all of SCoB or something. Meanwhile, SMN has been a burden for the last, oh, I dunno, 17 weeks. That's over three times as long. And Kona, you're still ignoring the fact that i130 gear was always going to solve DRG's being a burden.

Editing to add in times for WAR and BLM:

WAR was in a bad spot from launch to 2.1. 20 August to 14 December is 16 weeks. That's faster than SMN if SMN were fixed with tonight's maintenance. BLM was lacking in SCOB from 26 March to 7 July. That's less than 14 weeks; which, again, is faster than SMN would be if SMN were fixed tonight. And by comparison, DRG took 5 weeks. So, yes, compared to the other two, DRG was fixed quickly. And if SMN has to wait for 3.0 it'll be a bit over 20 weeks to fix one class.

DRG had been noticably weaker than MNK (roughly 8% which is comparable to the situation of SMN and BLM now) since launch of the game, thats 1 and a half years.
Everyone knew that DRG was weak, it only became really apparent with the introduction of NIN.

The fix wasnt quick at all. Lets hope it doesnt take them that long with SMN.

[Sunako]

80 dps is bit exaggerated. If you compare highest dps that have done with SMN and highest what have ever done with BLM, you have 2 remember BLM have more variation on their dps because of their procs. Average dps is that what should matter more than that how lucky you are with procs.

[Akiza]

Bullcrap. It should ALWAYS be balanced by the top %. Nobody else is actually pushing the class to the limit of what it can accomplish, nobody else can actually see how the class balances affect each other.

If you look at 'average' players right now, classes dont matter at all. Why? because they are average players, barely pushing content when it matters. They are players that need to outgear the content before they can even kill it.

Frankly, they dont matter in a class balance perspective.

Tell that to word first hardcore progression FC's that uses crafted penta melded gear to clear FCOB. Most players have average skills they just use gear to min/max and push phases to make the fight easier.