I wanna see the concept design for the new Eorzea!

[miqokini]

A special SE friend showed this to me....

Redesign

He said keep it on hush hush... i just

God dammit!!!! NO!!!!

This had better not be from SE. If it is, I am going to be extremely upset.

GET RID OF THE GOD DAMN RIGHT ANGLES!!!

Does that look like a map of a natural forest to you? What forests have paths and tunnels that are all perfect right angles and only right angles?

Make them more winding and natural looking, for Christ's sake.

If that image is truly a concept for where the new map designs are headed, then SE does not get it at all... *facepalm*

[Kailok]

God dammit!!!! NO!!!!

This had better not be from SE. If it is, I am going to be extremely upset.

GET RID OF THE GOD DAMN RIGHT ANGLES!!!

Does that look like a map of a natural forest to you? What forests have paths and tunnels that are all perfect right angles and only right angles?

Make them more winding and natural looking, for Christ's sake.

If that image is truly a concept for where the new map designs are headed, then SE does not get it at all... *facepalm*

That's not from SE, just some image reworking of the map. If it was from SE, it would have been more..announced. Also, whoever that "friend" was would have been killed by SE's Samurai Squad or something. >_>

[Gennosuke]

Yoshida wanted us to pass along that they're currently busy working on patch 1.19, but that once it's released, he'll be able to discuss a variety of interesting topics, so hang in there for a bit longer!

Thanks! I'm quite glad to see a reply on this..! but.. i'd like further clarification?
I sure am hoping variety of interesting topics is referring to the new design of Eorzea?

[Gramul]

God dammit!!!! NO!!!!

This had better not be from SE. If it is, I am going to be extremely upset.

GET RID OF THE GOD DAMN RIGHT ANGLES!!!

Does that look like a map of a natural forest to you? What forests have paths and tunnels that are all perfect right angles and only right angles?

Make them more winding and natural looking, for Christ's sake.

If that image is truly a concept for where the new map designs are headed, then SE does not get it at all... *facepalm*

I can't agree with you more. Luckly that's not official.
I really hope they take that overly organized systematic quick construction style of the shrowd and replace it with a more organic design, because what we where presented with, though pretty at parts is simply unaceptable from a modern level design perspective. This isn't a top down retro game and the art direction calls for a more natural and realistic feel.

[Rhianu]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/c/c2/FFXIII_crystal_lake.jpg

Please don't tell SE to make environments like the ones in FF13.

FF13 had the worst environments of any FF game ever. Even worse than the ones we have here in FF14.

FF12's environments were also pretty sub-par.

In fact, it seems like ever since SquareSoft merged with Enix back in 2003, all the FF games since then have all had terrible environments. :X

FFXI is in a unique position as some of its environments were designed and built under SquareSoft, while others were done under Square Enix. And if you'll notice, the older environments developed before the merger with Enix are noticeably superior. Honestly, the old SquareSoft would never have designed a city as horrendous as Aht Urhgan Whitegate -- I don't know why Square Enix thinks that kind of bland, monotonous repetition is acceptable. It's not.

[Tsukino]

God dammit!!!! NO!!!!

This had better not be from SE. If it is, I am going to be extremely upset.

GET RID OF THE GOD DAMN RIGHT ANGLES!!!

Does that look like a map of a natural forest to you? What forests have paths and tunnels that are all perfect right angles and only right angles?

Make them more winding and natural looking, for Christ's sake.

If that image is truly a concept for where the new map designs are headed, then SE does not get it at all... *facepalm*

It's pretty obviously something someone shopped.

On a different note, I'm convinced all you people whining about how the Black Shroud is SO MUCH WORSE than the other areas haven't even bothered to look at it beyond the map. The reason it looks like "right angles" is only because the map is so large and repetitive, and you're looking at only the areas you can walk in from far away. From nowhere on the ground does it ever look like you're on a straight path that's taking 90-degree turns. You can rarely see very far at all through the trees and the side-to-side winding all the paths do, as well as the upper and lower levels. It's supposed to feel like a forest that's so huge and ancient that you can only walk certain places, and the tunnels and 400-foot trees do a pretty good job of conveying that if you're not staring at the map.

Furthermore, the area has just as many interesting things to see as Thanalan or La Noscea. It also has multiple sub-environments - just like Thanalan has the canyon areas and the marshes near the coast, the Shroud has rivers and the treetop villages of the sylphs.

The problems it has are the same terrible ones both other regions have. It's too big and full of copy-and-pasted filler between the interesting landmarks, which are themselves small in number for the overall size. The plains and repeated caves and forks in La Noscea are just as bad as the ramp structures and the shaded cave-type areas (not sure what these are called, like where Little Ala Mhigo is) in Thanalan, which are just as bad as the stream crossings and identical clearings in the Black Shroud. They're all awful.

[Jobeto-Rin]

Jesus people thanks for making my e-peen 3 inches smaller.

[Gramul]

It's pretty obviously something someone shopped.

On a different note, I'm convinced all you people whining about how the Black Shroud is SO MUCH WORSE than the other areas haven't even bothered to look at it beyond the map. The reason it looks like "right angles" is only because the map is so large and repetitive, and you're looking at only the areas you can walk in from far away. From nowhere on the ground does it ever look like you're on a straight path that's taking 90-degree turns. You can rarely see very far at all through the trees and the side-to-side winding all the paths do, as well as the upper and lower levels. It's supposed to feel like a forest that's so huge and ancient that you can only walk certain places, and the tunnels and 400-foot trees do a pretty good job of conveying that if you're not staring at the map.

Furthermore, the area has just as many interesting things to see as Thanalan or La Noscea. It also has multiple sub-environments - just like Thanalan has the canyon areas and the marshes near the coast, the Shroud has rivers and the treetop villages of the sylphs.

The problems it has are the same terrible ones both other regions have. It's too big and full of copy-and-pasted filler between the interesting landmarks, which are themselves small in number for the overall size. The plains and repeated caves and forks in La Noscea are just as bad as the ramp structures and the shaded cave-type areas (not sure what these are called, like where Little Ala Mhigo is) in Thanalan, which are just as bad as the stream crossings and identical clearings in the Black Shroud. They're all awful.

Really my only problem is that the tile-esque grid like design pulls me out of the whole experience. The actual flora and architecture found in The Black Shroud is great, but is so layout is so mechanical and repetitive it creates a pretty disjointed contrast.

Most of the problem I think stems from the fact that the Shroud uses thin halls instead of the more open spaces of the other areas and the repetition and inorganic layout become much more obvious.

It makes it very clear that the Crystal tools engine was made to create large areas relatively quickly by use of big chunks of environment. Repetition was a problem in 13 and it's a problem in 14, but in 14 it looks like they just went for would be the easiest tilesets. The strict grid structure simply doesn't fit with the feel of the game.
Hell, I feel even a hexagon layout would help to make it a little less synthetic feeling, but we'll see how they handle it.

[Preypacer]

Really my only problem is that the tile-esque grid like design pulls me out of the whole experience. The actual flora and architecture found in The Black Shroud is great, but is so layout is so mechanical and repetitive it creates a pretty disjointed contrast.

Most of the problem I think stems from the fact that the Shroud uses thin halls instead of the more open spaces of the other areas and the repetition and inorganic layout become much more obvious.

It makes it very clear that the Crystal tools engine was made to create large areas relatively quickly by use of big chunks of environment. Repetition was a problem in 13 and it's a problem in 14, but in 14 it looks like they just went for would be the easiest tilesets. The strict grid structure simply doesn't fit with the feel of the game.
Hell, I feel even a hexagon layout would help to make it a little less synthetic feeling, but we'll see how they handle it.

SE made two major mistakes, in my opinion in their creation of the terrain assets for XIV.
1) Used land elements that are far too distinct and recognizable; they stand out from the rest of the landscape instead of blending in.
2) Foliage, boulders and debris are modeled directly into the tiles, so every time you encounter a specific piece of land, you're going to also see the same exact cluster of bushes, with the same tree or boulder, the same moss-covered log, etc, in the exact same spots. It's a 1-to-1 copy of every other instance of that same exact area.

In 2D tiled graphics, one of the #1 things to look out for are elements that stand out when repeated. The goal is to make the textures as homogeneous and "even" as possible. There are all kinds of techniques to accomplish this (High Pass filter to even out lighting, "rubber stamping" to edit out obvious details, etc). In a well designed tileable asset, you should never be able to make out the tiling... or it should be very difficult to.

The same goes for 3D tiles, as SE is using in XI and in XIV.

In XI, SE did it right. They maintained a much more homogeneous design for the tiles and created them in such a way that the larger structures were typically created out of smaller assets, whereas, in XIV, the larger assets are single tiles unto themselves.

In XI, they created more pieces that could be fit together in a greater variety of ways, giving them much more flexibility to create the very diverse and very un-repetitive areas you find in that game.

There is still repetition, to be sure. It's just much, much better concealed through better planned, superior environment design. You have to really look to find the repetition in XI. In XIV, it's right in your face.

Edit: I'm referring primarily to the older, pre-Aht Urghan areas in terms of not having a lot of obvious repetition. They definitely started re-using assets less carefully when they got to the Aht Urghan zones.

SE could actually do a huge bit of improvement in their current setup by removing things like shrubs, boulders, trees, etc from the tiles themselves, and adding them in afterwards as free-standing elements. They could take that one rectangular land-structure you see a lot in Black Shroud, where there's a river bi-secting it, and make each one look very different if they simply decorated each one with a different arrangement of trees, boulders, shrubs, etc.

It would also help if the overhead maps were more "implied" in terms of how they show each area's layout, instead of being so specific as it is now.

[VisionHolder]

One of the things I really want with the new map is better planning for travel and parties. (This also includes adjusting mob positions, numbers and spawn rates). The issues for me right now are:

1) Too many narrow passageways, making avoiding aggro (a player skill) impossible.

2) The SP camps I've tried so far fall into one of two categories: a) They have awesome mobs that are a fair challenge and give good SP (like peistes), but take forever to spawn--resulting in great SP and lots of fun running around at the start, and then a lot of standing around waiting or running from camp to camp (like raptors). b) There are two or three easy-to-kill, great SP mobs (usually efts) in low numbers with amazing spawn rates--resulting in the best SP (IMO), but also results in some standing around when you're waiting for one of them to spawn. For the first case, the spawn rates need to increase. For the second, a few more mobs are needed. (This ties into the map in the next point.)

3) There need to be more camps at various levels with improved versions of the two scenarios from #2. However, they should be slightly off the beaten path, particularly if the spawn rates are ridiculous. It sucks if you're trying to get somewhere and are forced to fight your way through, only to find the mobs respawn faster than you can get through them. That's great for SP, but sucks for travel. But again, some of this has to do with point #1.

I'm worried I'm not making this clear, but basically, the planning of the maps and the planning of SP grind camps (solo, duo/trio, light party, and full party) need to be considered together. FFXI was done pretty well because there was a challenge for getting from point A to point B, and most of the camps that I can think of were a little out-of-the-way, so the mobs didn't interfere with travel (or in this game, there's the issue of leves). Does that make sense?