Cerberus DPS Method - It Needs To Be Said. . .

[Nyalia]

Generally, 1/3rd of the raid isn't sure what they are doing. It was always like this in ST, it will always be like this in WoD. That means that you have 3 tanks, 2 of whom know what to do, and 1 who doesn't. Let's look at the impact just that has on the ABC method.

Situation 1: Good tanks in A and C, bad tank in B. The tank who doesn't really know what's going on is very likely to die trying to get inside, but A is tanking Cerby and C has the adds. So, not too bad, but you've basically told the bad tank to go kill himself instead of being a bit of extra DPS.

Situation 2: Good tanks in A and B, bad tank in C. B goes in because, regardless of what she thinks, you've told her to and she's not going to waste everyone's time pointing out how dumb of an idea it is. A has Cerby, B goes in, and C DPSs Cerby trying to steal aggro. Wolfsbanes are untanked and wipe the raid.

Situation 3: Good tanks in B and C, bad tank in A. You've just told a bad tank to be MT. A loses aggro a lot, causing various healers and DPS to get killed along the way. B or C becomes MT because A can't handle it. The other goes inside because you've told them to. Wolfsbanes are untanked and wipe the raid.

Now, let's look at DPS. If 1/3rd of them are bad, you have 5 bad DPS and 10 good DPS. Bad, meaning they die to AoEs/mechanics, do very little DPS, or attack the wrong things. Let's say you've sent 2 bad DPS and 3 good DPS inside. The bad ones are wailing away on the Unknowns while the good ones are taking down the walls slowly. It takes so long to take down the walls that Cerby gets his Haste and Damage buff maxed and he's nearly one-shotting the tank by the time the 3 DPS finally kill the walls. Or, worse case, the bad DPS have good gear and kill the Unknowns before the walls go down. Cerby winds up with tons of health he shouldn't have and the fight goes on well past the second knockdown.

Or, even worse - half the DPS die on the way in, there's not enough DPS inside to do much of anything, and everyone inside dies. Cerby wipes the raid.

And then there's the healers - either you send two healers inside, leaving four to deal with actual damage being dealt while two do nothing (except maybe DPS?).



Back when people on Aether did the ABC thing, we wiped 2/3rds of the time. We wiped either because the group going in had no idea what they were doing or fought the unknowns, or because no one was tanking the Wolfsbanes. Once it took four attempts to clear Cerby, and that was after the first week so plenty of people knew what they were doing.

Generally, I see the ABC strat working these days because most DPS ignore it and all go in anyway, saving the raid. And, good tanks these days know to stay outside and ignore anyone who tells them to go in, causing there to pretty much always be at least two good tanks on the outside, one for Cerby and one for the Wolfbanes.


Sending only DPS in ensures that there are competent healers outside to heal the tanks, competent tanks outside to tank both Cerby and the Wolfsbanes, and less competent DPS who don't know how to go in outside to start DPSing the wolfbanes. It also ensures that there are enough competent DPS inside to kill the walls before the unknowns die and to kill the walls before Cerby gets his uber-buff. It IS safer, it IS faster, and it DOES result in fewer wipes. Maybe it's different on the datacenters where everyone knows what they're doing and does what they're supposed to, but assigning roles to people based on their arbitrary position in the raid and without knowing their familiarity with the content is just asking for disaster.

And, btw, I've never wiped with the "all DPS in" method, ever, except from mishandling of the chains, which is totally unrelated to ABC/All DPS.

[Alistaire]

Generally, I see the ABC strat working these days because most DPS ignore it and all go in anyway, saving the raid.

This. "It works because people don't actually do it."...kinda got a laugh out of that, but anyone coming in here now saying "I did ABC and it worked for me" lacks credibility because there's enough DPS that know better, and do what they should be doing regardless of what's called out.