First ever gay couple NPC's

[TouchandFeel]

But at the same time it's right to give credit to SE for doing something good, which was the purpose of this thread (I think). If the positive feedback gets to SE, it's done more good than harm even if it pisses off a few of the most vocal homophobes.

Again, giving respect and acknowledgement to positive and accurate portrayals of lgbt persons is a good thing, when done responsibly.

The original intent by the op for this thread was not that as they have plainly stated.

I also disagree that handling such issues in this manner definitively does more good than harm.
Do they provide some positive feedback? Yes they do, which is a good thing.
However they most often provide no reasoning or explanation as to why its a good thing to have open portrayals of lgbt members, it really just puts a spotlight on them which has positive and negative repercussions. Those already inclined to appreciate it will be happy and see it as a positive and those already opposed to it will be upset by it and will attempt to retaliate, thus creating conflict and not really changing anyone's mind on the subject.

If hearts and minds are to be won over on such issues, positive and irrefutable reasoning for why viewpoints should change needs to be presented, hence my gentle plea for a more thoughtful approach to how to draw attention to the subject at hand.

Lastly, I really don't appreciate the direct insinuation that myself and others that disagree with threads like this are all a bunch of haters and homophobes. In truth, the greatest source of hate in this thread is from reactions like that. The person that initially expressed their distaste for threads like this stated that they were an openly gay man. I have made it abundantly clear that I support equality and acceptance of lgbt persons and care deeply about the issue as it affects a good deal of people that I know IRL. In fact I care enough about it that I have tried to make it clear that people need to be mindful of how they try to champion and support this and other such causes, because by if you just rush in like a bull, you are likely to cause damage to everything, both the opposition and your own side.

So please, if you do truly care about this and such social causes, dont lash out at the people that are trying to move those causes forward in a thoughtful and positive manner just because you think that it should be done in a different and more aggressive manner.

I apologize for having to essentially repeat myself, but it seems that some people are too up-in-arms to just stop and actually see what I am saying and would rather just grab their torches and pitchforks.

[Crysten]

All these "I'm here, I'm queer, so get used to it" threads are starting to make me cringe.
We don't need a thread poking potential homophobic people every weeks.

Cheers.

Seconded. A lot of the LGBT community needs to learn the difference between being proud and being obnoxious.

[Moqi]

The original intent by the op for this thread was not that as they have plainly stated.

Which is why I've been ignoring OP completely and gave my positive feedback to SE in my first thread in this post. No reason to make another thread saying the same thing. Just because OP as a hard on for yaoi it doesn't mean something good can't come out of this thread if you use it to give positive feedback one something SE made just like there are for WoD, Moogle quests and other stuff people liked and wanted to see more of.

Lastly, I really don't appreciate the direct insinuation that myself and others that disagree with threads like this are all a bunch of haters and homophobes.

Uhm, I have not insinuated anything. I wasn't talking to anyone in specific or anything said in this thread... it was just a general statement. Threads like these are bound to attract trolls and homophobes, it's pretty much a given, but should be made regardless. That's all I was saying.

[KodiHivaer]

Seconded. A lot of the LGBT community needs to learn the difference between being proud and being obnoxious.

Zoralink pointed this out and well, look what happened to him.
Anyone that points this out, gay or straight gets labeled "bigoted and homophobic" when (like Zoralink) all they did was express their displeasure of how it's presented.
(I'm not even talking about homophobes, I'm talking people that are part of the LGBT community in general that just don't agree with this kind of presentation.)

[Fenral]

I honestly don't know why Zoralink's post needed to be deleted, because I, and others, appreciated his input and respected his opinion, even if I disagreed. Pretty sure we already came to mutual understanding around page 3. It was only after that disagreement was resolved that it was brought up again and I guess somebody "needed to do something about it." Sigh.

This thread has been going in circles for a while now, anyway.

[Battlewrench]

Zoralink pointed this out and well, look what happened to him.
Anyone that points this out, gay or straight gets labeled "bigoted and homophobic" when (like Zoralink) all they did was express their displeasure of how it's presented.
(I'm not even talking about homophobes, I'm talking people that are part of the LGBT community in general that just don't agree with this kind of presentation.)

If you don't have anything positive to say they'll bash you the way they claim to hate people bashing them. I find it obnoxious as well. Everyone is just trying to force their mentality down each others throats and love to throw out these words to label people into negative groups to paint a picture. When they label you it puts people on the defensive and takes away the actual point people are trying to make. Of course I'll have to point out I'm making broad statements and not implying to anyone in specifically before people come and try to argue anything.

I'm personally more annoyed at someone who keeps insulting southern American citizens. Someone who is insulting people for stereotyping and generalizing is stereotyping.....go figure.

[Ladyaceous]

I'm personally more annoyed at someone who keeps insulting southern American citizens. Someone who is insulting people for stereotyping and generalizing is stereotyping.....go figure.

Ya know what? You're absolutely right. It was hypocritical and ignorant. The reason, not excuse, is that my brother is gay and we lived in Kentucky for years. Doesn't justify the statement in it's entirety though. I'm old enough to leave anecdotal evidence out of most conversations.

I will tell you this though, my brother's life used to be unnecessarily hard. He still has social anxiety today because of it. What he would never do however, is make a thread like this. Threads like this are something he would shy away from and not due to social anxiety.

Anyway, nice catch and I'm sorry. I would go delete the post, but that would seem deceptive imo.

[TheWaywardWind]

God it's all so complicated...

Just having them there is a way to prove other people wrong because it's an example of how homosexual couples are just like everyone else. When you think about it, it's not the couple itself who was making a fuss (obviously, because they're NPCs and whatever) because they don't once acknowledge the fact that they're both males, just that they're different races.

People perpetuate stereotypes against massive groups of people all the time. Whether you actively or passively disprove them is fine, so long as they're being disproven. This was more passive than anything else, the only people turning this into a catastrophe are the ones who complain about them being there in the first place or the ones who freak out because they're idolizing them in the first place.

As I stated, if you view it from the NPC's point of view (weird to do, I know), they don't once acknowledge it. They're just giving you their reasons for sympathizing with the tonberries and want you to do something for them. If you view it as two people who just want to share an experience to motivate you to help others, then this shouldn't even remotely be a problem.

It's everyone else who pauses dead in their tracks and goes "OMG they're shoving this down our throats" or "OMG SO CUTE I LOVE GAY PEOPLE."

I'm not saying either is right. Their existence is not them "shoving homosexuality" down your throat, in the same way them existing is not some grand slam victory for gay rights. It just is, it was tastefully done, and everyone should move on just like the couple does once you finish that quest.

[Elusana_Celah]

...

Well I am happy for them the same way I'd be happy for any two people who found love, gay or not. So cheers for that! (no sarcasm) Since the OP is seeming kinda trollish at this point and making accusations that anyone who disagrees with this thread is a bigot / homophobe, I'm making this my last contribution to the thread as I sorta did keep an unnecessary debate going which I apologize for. Thanks to everyone who gave a mature debate as I have been able to get some various points of views that will help me in the future going forward. I do feel like my point of view has been missed by too many people and would require a much more in depth intellectual debate where I would need to dig up sources to show exactly what I mean and this thread is not the place for that.

Despite everything I have said, I am 100% pro gay, I just show my support for it in very different ways. I argue against the source of the hate and attack those wannabe intellectuals who like to make statements proving how bad it is, while others make it a point to display how happy gay people are to the world. Point is? We're both doing things, different things but still things. We've made great strives together and homosexual acceptance is already becoming a thing despite the still-existing hate. Even my own parents who were against it strongly have opened up to it and no longer hold hate for it.

The perspectives I've gained from this thread have been helpful as I've said before so I am pulling out to leave the OP in his or her state of fangirling. <3 you all!

[JonLuso]

I didn't have a problem with this thread until I saw Zoralink's post was deleted. At this point, IMO, the OP was of the notion "Omg, I like this, agree with me" and the implied "If you don't like what I like, don't post, plzkthxbye."

The FACT that his post was deleted tells a lot.

I am also 100% pro on the subject, but I don't force my opinions onto others, nor do I make light of it unless called for. People keep saying that one needs to tackle the subject matter in order to make any progress, but, in this case, I do not think that this is the right way to do so, not by a long shot.