Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Tiggy]

When you look at it on 'difficulty' basis, a group of 8 players doing t10 only will have to exert more skill and concerted effort compared to 8 players clearing the entirity of wod. Wod players will be able to get any i130 piece they want for every single player while the 8 players doing coil will 2 pieces of i130 shared between the group.

Balanced.

You're forgetting the disparity in the difficulty between the content and the disparity between how the two groups gear up in that scenario. That's not remotely balanced at all. How can that possibly feel balanced? Even carbon coats get a a weekly quest that has more balance than that.

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Keep in mind most people are not suggesting the demon set is increased ilvl within WoD, there is additional effort required to obtain the upgrade for those pieces to ilvl130 similar to the upgrade process for Ironworks. You can argue about the difficulty perhaps but the effort aspect is not really am issue because if go route of upgrade item required then that could be balanced in itself to require a decent amount of effort and by proxy balancing it in line with for example Ironworks effort.

The difficulty aspect would still be balanced in that both ironworks and the demon set requires an upgrade item that needs to be farmed which the coil version of ilvl130 does not in such examples. The reward for that extra difficulty within coils means they do not have to put in extra effort to obtain additional upgrade items and instead the extra effort went into doing the harder content ideally. Difficulty balanced against effort not difficulty balanced against difficulty, the same as is currently the case for Ironworks.

[Kisik]

The sheer fact that this argument is even taking place is proof enough that raiders look down on the rest of the population. Simple truth however is that both raiders and non-raiders need progression, a sense of building on something, to keep them playing, and paying for the game. Not everyone enjoys being confined to the same avenues of advancement so the devs are smart enough to offer multiple ways to get this sense of achievement. This sense of achievement is provided by better gear, gear that is not necessary to either raider or non-raider, but makes all of our lives easier. It's already been established in this thread that both Raider and Non-Raider gear ilvls far exceed the bare minimum needed to defeat the available content, perhaps the devs should make raiding rewards purely cosmetic, keep everyone on the same playing field stat wise, and eliminate this nonsense.

[Gardes]

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on 'me' in your reply which goes back to my original post above which further reinforces my perceptions listed in the second paragraph, first sentence "To me personally and my perceptions, many of the hardcore raiders are really only concerned with themselves". This is not a dig at you per se but just saying that by doing such things does not help change my perceptions.

You wrote that increasing the max ilvl gear being thrown around will help the player base. I AM part of that player base. I play the game too and I do content other than coil so you're also saying it will help me clear content within said player base. I use myself as an example but it can easily be replaced with YOU, he, she, we, they, or whatever you please. You may be more than happy to sling that word "egoistic" around to separate yourself from me but at its core, you and I are the same and have the chance at access to all content in the game. I can't change your perceptions because I believe you don't want it to change.

The thing I wanted to reply to more importantly in your response is that I explained how it would benefit you in almost every aspect you questioned. In most cases it benefits you as a group, as a community and also you as an individual all of which I did explain already not only in page 26, post 256...but also page 24, post 234 and posts even before that in this very thread.

Some of which granted I may not have wrote paragraphs explaining each individual benefit but I think it is a bit overkill if I had to do that for every single thing I said to avoid nitpicking or shotgun argumentation methods. I feel I have explained in enough posts and enough detail to cover the questions you just asked already in this very same thread.

I have explained to you why I do not believe the benefits you think this will bring will amount to anything. To put it in shorter words, better gear for players who are not encouraged to push their skill to their limits is akin to putting the cart before the horse. Also using pages to refer to post is faulty because not everyone has the save forum view esttings.

You're forgetting the disparity in the difficulty between the content and the disparity between how the two groups gear up in that scenario. That's not remotely balanced at all. How can that possibly feel balanced? Even carbon coats get a a weekly quest that has more balance than that.

Tiggy, I was being sarcastic..

Keep in mind most people are not suggesting the demon set is increased ilvl within WoD, there is additional effort required to obtain the upgrade for those pieces to ilvl130 similar to the upgrade process for Ironworks. You can argue about the difficulty perhaps but the effort aspect is not really am issue because if go route of upgrade item required then that could be balanced in itself to require a decent amount of effort and by proxy balancing it in line with for example Ironworks effort.

If you believe that the current poetic upgrade system is balanced and wod gear upgrade to i130 should follow that method, then wod gear upgrade are only obtainable through hunts for a price equivalent to carbon twine. Do you agree?

[Firepower]

I like the fact that some "hardcore" raiders say that nobody else needs the i130 gear because they don't raid. When quite obviously if you was really hardcore you would of been clearing final coil alongside Lucrezia and Collision with world first kills and doing it in melded i110 gear and whatever drops along the way. So in fact Nobody needs the i130 gear it is just a reward, just like every other final fantasy game, the best weapons/gear rewards are BEHIND the hardest bosses, so the bosses you need to kill to get the gear are already the most difficult thing around so if you can kill the boss to get the gear then there is no need for the gear to kill the boss you just previously did. So to say that the gear is any more "needed" for either party is pointless.

I only use the Crystal tower gear for my retainers as they then automatically get upgraded to the next level necessary to continue with the most current venture requests. Allowing them to be upgraded to i130 would be nice to allow some customisation among everybody including the raiders who now have 3 options to min/max effectively. So I for one definitely feel that CT gear should be upgradable to i130.

[Snugglebutt]

...then wod gear upgrade are only obtainable through hunts for a price equivalent to carbon twine. Do you agree?

No I do not agree...I told you how I thought such a WoD upgrade would work and it is not what you want me to agree with. Click on this link to see my answer to that question about how it would work ideally in my opinion. Paragraphs three and four cover this aspect but it needs to be taken in context of the entire post as requires re-balancing other aspects such as Ironworks and hunts.

I am really not sure what you are talking about regarding skill/gear pushing limits comment because the population of the game in general do not adhere to the same ideology your projecting as an argument and I can say that with a fair amount of certainty. You should also probably (this is just a suggestion) refrain from using sarcasm in your posts because sarcasm does not translate well in text form which lacks vocal tone.

How it works is almost everyone generally wishes to progress to experience new content, gear helps...you make it sound like no-one would start doing raids just because better gear was available to help them in order to oppose my view point which does not make sense to me. Just look at the increase in amount of people trying to do coils now with the addition of ilvl130 Ironworks if want proof of my position, the same applies to demon set if that had a upgrade option of obtaining the ilvl120 in WoD but a quest NPC or trade NPC offered the option of upgrading to ilvl130 through additional effort.

[Shneibel]

I don't know why ppl have to argument with Utsu in the first place. The whole idea "if you are not do coil content you don't need xxx gear" is ignorance & we know it. Look back at the previous patch, ppl will be able to get ilvl 130 armor & wep, run coil or not. That is how it always is, and it will be here soon, expect to come in patch 2.51. The OP suggest to upgrade the WoD gear to ilvl 130 which I think it should be approve, than the whole thread de-rail because of some ignorance comment

[Nel_Celestine]

I was thinking about this a bit more last night. One of the things I suggested back when Soldiery first implemented the upgrade system (which I disagreed with) was to put the sands / oils up for Soldiery at a cost of 800/600 soldiery each meaning they couldn't be farmed like crazy and it would take a time investment during the weekly cap. I suggested this for poetics too because Hunts are really stupid and were far to rewarding. Don't believe me, I talked about it with my co-host for almost a month straight on my channel.

What they could do, is offer something similar. Turning in the gift of the Arch magus would give another item. Perhaps "pearl of light" or such. Trade in two of those for a belt and 3 for any other piece to upgrade them to i130. This would ensure it's not fast, requires commitment and not a zerg and pray thing like hunts. It would allow non-raiders to have 2 i130 gear sets and raiders to have 3 i130 gear sets.