Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Kiroh]

Then it wouldn't matter which one you got since i130 and i120 look the same when dead on the floor. xD

Which has more room to make mistakes, the one with more HP/DEF or the one with less? Naturally a raid wipe sized mistake won't make a diff, but smaller mistakes are more easily overcome when you have the health pool to eat them.

[Ophie-Mio]

Which has more room to make mistakes, the one with more HP/DEF or the one with less? Naturally a raid wipe sized mistake won't make a diff, but smaller mistakes are more easily overcome when you have the health pool to eat them.

I see what point you're trying to make, but I still don't agree. I've healed groups that had a fully geared out dps and one that was lesser than that. One was expected to perform amazingly because he was a dreadwyrm blm and the other was a regular blm that had some soldiery and some poetics (barely i115). What happened was that the dreadwyrm blm was a burden to our group because he could barely dodge anything while our other blm was just fine. He took a reasonable number of hits to the face. He had less HP/DEF than the other but required much less attention.

If you're bad as i130, no matter your gear, I'll kick you and call it a day. Bad i120 and bad i130 are equal under the gaze of a healer who needs to give them special attention.

[Kiroh]

I see what point you're trying to make, but I still don't agree. I've healed groups that had a fully geared out dps and one that was lesser than that. One was expected to perform amazingly because he was a dreadwyrm blm and the other was a regular blm that had some soldiery and some poetics (barely i115). What happened was that the dreadwyrm blm was a burden to our group because he could barely dodge anything while our other blm was just fine. He took a reasonable number of hits to the face. He had less HP/DEF than the other but required much less attention.

If you're bad as i130, no matter your gear, I'll kick you and call it a day. Bad i120 and bad i130 are equal under the gaze of a healer who needs to give them special attention.

You're comparing a skilled 115 to an unskilled 130. With skill completely removed from the equation, the higher ilevel is naturally the smarter choice.

I said in the first post to assume both were bad until proven otherwise, because that's what most people looking for a PUG member do. They don't know you from any other random player and if they're taking a chance on a random, they're going to go with the better geared one.

[Kazumac]

For the same reason raiders want 130 gear, it's not mandatory to complete final coil either, but you still want it.

Having the best gear in the game is the reward for doing final coil. It's the design of the game, it is what the game rewards you with. Making the highest tier gear obtainable through mindless hunts and easy upgrades devalues the effort and reward set out by the game. I'm not even a FCOB raider and I see that. Inherently no one needs that final tier but when it is the reward for doing the hardest content in the game, it's not hard to see how devaluing that reward has it's flaws as a system.

I really don't care because I'm not driven by gear progression but some are. And I can see their side on this matter.

[Taei]

i haven't read every post but I think everyone here has missed the point. My request was for i130 WoD gear in 2.51+. Basically when they have already unlocked Fcob and when Fcob is already old news (which it kinda already is) so I don't understand why people are against old content by that point. I mean are people still pissed at nerfed coil and scob? lol. It's how SE will deal with content and gear. All I was asking for was to make WoD gear viable not just as glamour.

[Kiroh]

Having the best gear in the game is the reward for doing final coil. It's the design of the game, it is what the game rewards you with. Making the highest tier gear obtainable through mindless hunts and easy upgrades devalues the effort and reward set out by the game. I'm not even a FCOB raider and I see that. Inherently no one needs that final tier but when it is the reward for doing the hardest content in the game, it's not hard to see how devaluing that reward has it's flaws as a system.

I really don't care because I'm not driven by gear progression but some are. And I can see their side on this matter.

Cry me a river honestly, if your effort is so worthless that it's devalued by someone else obtaining the gear more easily than you did this is not the game for you. Or any vertical progression mmo to be honest, the entire system in this game is built around gear becoming obsolete and easier to obtain patch-by-patch. That's the system we're stuck with and it's not changing any time soon. If you expect the gear you get this patch to be that hard to obtain forever, you're going to have a bad time.

[Tiggy]

Basically when they have already unlocked Fcob and when Fcob is already old news (which it kinda already is) so I don't understand why people are against old content by that point.

FCOB isn't already old news. It's still the most current content with many groups still working on their first win. So you don't understand why people are so against it? Well it's because you don't understand that it's still the top tier most relevant content. It seems to be you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the state of the current content. The only time this will no longer be relevant is literally the day the expansion launches. 3.0+ Not 2.51. No 130 gear should ever drop from this dungeon. That's horrifically imbalanced.

[Kiroh]

FCOB isn't already old news. It's still the most current content with many groups still working on their first win. So you don't understand why people are so against it? Well it's because you don't understand that it's still the top tier most relevant content. It seems to be you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the state of the current content. The only time this will no longer be relevant is literally the day the expansion launches. 3.0+ Not 2.51. No 130 gear should ever drop from this dungeon. That's horrifically imbalanced.

There are plenty of people still working on their T5 clears, that doesn't mean first coil isn't old news. We're already coming up on 3.0 in the next few months, final coil has been on farm for most people running it for several months already. It's old news, get over it.

[Tiggy]

There are plenty of people still working on their T5 clears, that doesn't mean first coil isn't old news. We're already coming up on 3.0 in the next few months, final coil has been on farm for most people running it for several months already. It's old news, get over it.

Keep telling yourself in order to goto sleep tonight. Most groups I know are still progressing forward and haven't even been to t13. Some didn't beat t9 for a whole month or more after 2.4 released and are just now reach 11 or 12.
You're completely incorrect and you're making crazy assumptions about what players are doing. The handful of groups that already beat it are hardly the entire raiding community. The content hasn't even been out for the full 6 month cycle it was intended for.
Just because a few people are beating DOES NOT I ANY WAY mean it isn't still the top end content in the game and that it isn't run by crap loads of people every single week. Trying to tie it to T5 like that is a straw man I refuse to acknowledge. They are very clearly, to any person with common sense, at very different levels in progression.

final coil has been on farm for most people running it for several months already

By all means supply a source. Cause I think you're clearly talking out of your rear about a statistic you clearly made up on the spot.

[Kazumac]

Cry me a river honestly, if your effort is so worthless that it's devalued by someone else obtaining the gear more easily than you did this is not the game for you. Or any vertical progression mmo to be honest, the entire system in this game is built around gear becoming obsolete and easier to obtain patch-by-patch. That's the system we're stuck with and it's not changing any time soon. If you expect the gear you get this patch to be that hard to obtain forever, you're going to have a bad time.

Dude, I suggested taking another look at a different perspective. You are the one on the attack because someone has a different perspecive. And I'm quite aware of the state of the game and how vertical progression works. But SE devalues the the reward before offering up new content and additional rewards. Well it is my opinion that it is flawed. (It's cool its an opinion, I don't require you to share it)

I described a counter point to why it might matter to some but it's cool you can attack me for trying to rationalize another point of view don't worry I can be your virtual punching bag.