I think its time BRD get some loving

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Again you keep going on about balance, you have yet to prove that the suggestions in this thread would do any harm to the balance of either the classes, party composition or game in general. All your claims about balance is simply being afraid to rock the boat. SE rocks that boat with every single hot fix and patch already and like with those minor changes the game remains unbroken in most cases (perhaps hunts being the exception at the moment but that's not related to class changes).

Need I remind you also that a lot of the content in this game was added for the sole purpose of fluffy feel goods by the way. Things added not because if did not have it the game would crumple and die but because a lot of that content made people feel better about playing the game. Let me also remind you this boat is going to be rocked beyond perhaps your comprehension when 3.0 comes out, one tiny alteration to one debuff is not going to change that.

[Izsha]

It's not about rocking th e boat. It's about changing only when it's necessary. You have yet to prove to me how buffing drg movement speed by 10% unbalances the game. Or how buffing war damage by 5% unbalances the game.

And I did already tell you. Because it risks unforseen concequences. And a risk for what gain? None. SE has stated that they are quite happy with the current job distribution participating in content with the exception of smn. Their goal is to have roughly equal participation rates between jobs and the only time they have acted is wheb that distribution becomes unbalanced. You want a feel good buff. SE gives distribution adjustment buffs.

Distribution is based on #s. It's measurable. It's a defensible position. I wanna hit harder is not.

You want more feel goods? Hildibrand is over there. You want to have combat class balance adjustments? You better come with a reason.

[RiceisNice]

But how would removal or changing the debuff type on your bard trivialize another classes mana management? Their mana management would not be impacted by you having the % damage debuff decreased, removed or replaced with another form of debuff when playing songs.

If I didn't have the damage penalty, I'd be singing it in more circumstances outside of the healer's mana falling below a certain threshold. If I could keep the healers above 85% mp the entire fight without any repercussion, why not? You could say that I wouldn't be able to sing in case of an emergency, but if it comes to that point even after a full uptime of ballad that's another concern on the healers themselves.

Not just coil (though it's still a major factor), even though dungeons are already steamrolly enough as it is, the pauses inbetween trash pulls and the lowered consumption of ballad is nearly a 100% uptime.

[QiLymePye]

I agree with you Snuggle. I don't see the problem with taking away debuff. Once again, there was not one person in this entire thread that said BRD needs a buff. They are saying..wait for it......read it nice and slow......that they think the penalty is getting to harsh and either needs to be removed or adjusted. That is not an unreasonable request. Everybody talking about balance...this game isn't really that balanced. In order for them to make the game more balanced, they need to add more roles. They have to. Your job should specialize in one role. If SE wants a support role, create one. What they are doing with the roles is the same thing they did with the whole class/job combo. And as you can see, we are moving away from classes and on to jobs.

SE needs to take a look at other roles that can be added to balance not only party composition, but also help to balance gameplay when fighting. In this instance, either BRD should be a Healer with low ability to DPS, or DPS with low ability to heal/support. Trying to do both is cheating this job because of their trinity, its killing this game.

And I'm sorry, in almost every fantasy game, book or movie, Archers are DPS. Lol. You don't see Legolas running around playing a harp while his arrows fall harmlessly to the ground after striking an enemy. Actually, Archers are like the snipers of fantasy land. Support...yeah....they can support by sniping and killing stuff while hidden and far away with one hit. If they wanted a BRD in this game, shouldn't give it a bow and arrow for a weapon. sorry...SE dropped the ball on this one.

[Snugglebutt]

It's not about rocking the boat.

Because it risks unforseen concequences.

Seems to me you do not know what rocking the boat means and how it applies to your argument which contradicts itself.

You have yet to prove to me how buffing drg movement speed by 10% unbalances the game. Or how buffing war damage by 5% unbalances the game.

Show me a thread where lots of people are asking for those things then it 'might' become relevant to this discussion in my opinion. My argument is two fold, firstly is that there is evidence that a lot of people are asking for something (neither of your examples seem to have such or you have failed to link such) and secondly that it would not unbalance or damage the game to give them the things being suggested or at least take into consideration what is suggested in this thread.

You are also apparently under the misconception that I have to appease you or convince you of anything. My participation in this thread was for the original goal of letting SE know I would appreciate the change along with many others asking for such and expressing a belief it would do them no harm to make the changes, something no-one has proved to be wrong so far in here in my opinion (some here might believe differently but that is their opinion not mine). A lot of those people have been extremely hyperbolic and melodramatic in their opposition.

All these additional tangents and discussions are for my own amusement since my original post and original comment was towards SE while these later ones were for my additional (optional) entertainment in further debating with others. You seem to have decided you are the gatekeeper of any of SE changes to classes, demanding literally that people prove themselves to you in some twisted way like you think you get to decide what SE does or does not listen to, think about or act upon. Let me assure you that is not the case...SE are more than capable of making their own minds up, listening to people and acting on peoples suggestions if agree with them.

[Izsha]

You don't have to appease me. But I share the same position that se has repeatedly supported with their actions.

They only act when job participation becomes skewed or 'unbalanced'. That's why war got buff. Bard got nerfed. Melee got buffed. Blm got buffed. Drg for buffed. They are planning smn buffs. SE reactively adjusts jobs based on their participation rates. That's it. That is all they have ever done.

You seem to think that because you wanna hit harder they will see the great error in their ways and buff bard.

SE is quite aware how touchy buffs and nerfs are to games, so instead of just taking requests and randomly doling out buffs and nerfs at the whim of the crowd, they only make adjustments when unbiased justification is revealed. Data. Specifically job participation data.

I side with logic and data. There is no data to support a bard adjustment at this time. And that is how a company running an game with hundreds of thousands of players all with opinions of their own intelligently operates. They cannot simply bend to every little whim of a fickle and diverse player base so they react only to irrefutable data.

If you really think bard need such help then not playing it is the most effective way to convince se it needs help.

SE'S policy isn't just buff. It's to buff when data demonstrates a buff is needed. Evidence. Proof. Data. Justification. Defensible. I wanna do more damage is none of these.

I agree with SE'S policy because arbitrary adjustments are a recipe for disaster in the long run. This is an arbitrary adjustment. It is irrelivant if it has minimal or large effects on balance. It's bad policy.

[Haxetc]

Have you posted any reason why you think it wouldn't do any harm? I mean, if it didn't do any harm than it must not do much harm at its current value so hope would that make you even enjoy the game more so than you already do?

[Snugglebutt]

Have you posted any reason why you think it wouldn't do any harm?

I have many times already.

I mean, if it didn't do any harm than it must not do much harm at its current value so hope would that make you even enjoy the game more so than you already do?

That did not make much sense but if I interpreted it correctly at least the point you was trying to make I assume then my answer is it does not do a lot of harm but it is an annoyance and with any annoyance it is beneficial for a persons enjoyment if that annoyance was gone. Reducing, removing or even replacing the debuff from a percent damage debuff to another form of debuff I would be okay with. Doing so would increase my enjoyment of the class and would do no harm to the other classes or group composition.

[Haxetc]

Unfortunately for you, you haven't posted any relevant reasons nor have you done any content that makes me believe that you can notice what the debuff does to your damage. If you've been trolling this would make sense however I believe that's not the case and I believe that you're continuing the trend of unnecessary complaining. Post something that would give a dev a reason to think about it because you saying that it makes the game more enjoyable for you is laughable.

[GalkaBikini]

Once again, there was not one person in this entire thread that said BRD needs a buff. They are saying..wait for it......read it nice and slow......that they think the penalty is getting to harsh and either needs to be removed or adjusted. That is not an unreasonable request. Everybody talking about balance...this game isn't really that balanced.

How does removing or lowering the damage penalty not = a buff...........? And yes, this game is pretty balanced. One of the most balanced I've ever played. It's not perfect.