Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[ScarletDawn]

Nope. You call raiders elitist because you get offended by everything a raider says for some reason.

i call those who think doing FcoB entitles them to special treatment and that people who have not completed or unlocked it are looked down like a second class citizen. I do Coil and i enjoy it, i like how hard it is but im saying FcoB is for really good raiders and requires very good gear and skill use.

Finding 8 people to do the raids is pretty hard since not everyone can do it. Turn 9 is pretty difficult in terms of learning and mechanics.

[DoctorPepper]

Personally I like the raid gear where it is right now and I don't think it needs to be upgraded to i130. My reasoning being that several of the i120 pieces are already bis over both i130 ironworks/dreadwyrm gear.

I do however wish they would remove the lockout for it right off the bat, I despise going through 5-10 runs a week trying to get a few pieces of loot I want and not having a chance to get any reward aside from a handful of tomes and a very low chance at a minion.

There is already a lot of content that gives players a chance to obtain gear better than coil and adding more will just discourage people from doing the hard 8 mans all together.

Also, it's simply not needed in my opinion, i120 is already over geared for practically all content this game has to offer.

[Altena]

What's stopping non-raiders from doing coil for gear?

I won't even mention how you completely ignored my actual point. (Well I guess I just did.)

I am sure there are quite a number of reasons. However how is more gear diversity a bad thing? Why limit the highest iLvl to 2 set substats? If "hardcore" players were really hardcore - they would be pushing for optimizing their sub stats, which would include clearing and gathering gear from all sources.

In addition to this, coil drops are based on a luck system. You could be a world first group and never see a specific BiS Dread piece drop.
Luck doesn't equate to being "hardcore". Luck equates to being lucky (or unlucky respectively).

This late in the patch, it honestly doesn't even matter. Non-raiders must be getting close to full i130 by now (minus the weapon) due to poetics + twine from hunts. Adding an extra alternative to BiS is advantageous to both groups.

[Tiggy]

I always find it funny how non-raiders want the gear faster, but completely forget that raiders will use that avenue for gearing as well therefore breaking end game balance super fast. It's all about them though and screw the side effects on the rest of the game!

[Dwill]

Yawn. Generic, heard it 5,000 times in other threads, comment of the day. In addition, please learn to read, as I stated right in the comment you quoted that I am already working on FCOB. Thanks.

Quite the irony considering than when I mentioned everyone, it wasn't in reference to you but to that particular bolded part:

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

Working on FCOB now, I can still safely say that people like you that hint (or flat out state) that people that don't do FCOB shouldn't get access to any way to improve their character really get on my nerves. In addition, I think your whole i130 gear is "more than just stats, it's so much more" is total BS. It's stats and e-peen and nothing more.

But hey, if you keep hearing it 5,000 more times, maybe you should take the hint about who truly needs to take a second to comprehend the post.

I always find it funny how non-raiders want the gear faster, but completely forget that raiders will use that avenue for gearing as well therefore breaking end game balance super fast. It's all about them though and screw the side effects on the rest of the game!

Agreed but at this point, I'm not even surprised anymore. The amount of people who agrees to these kind of ideas seems to willingly forego any semblance of global balance within the game because "I pay the same amount, raiders are elitist, insert other generic anti-raider statement".

[Ashkendor]

I always find it funny how non-raiders want the gear faster, but completely forget that raiders will use that avenue for gearing as well therefore breaking end game balance super fast. It's all about them though and screw the side effects on the rest of the game!

Even funnier are the ones that insist raiders should "wait their turn" to do this content instead of competing with non-raiders for the hunts, since the upgrade materials are also available through FCoB.

[StouterTaru]

Even funnier are the ones that insist raiders should "wait their turn" to do this content instead of competing with non-raiders for the hunts, since the upgrade materials are also available through FCoB.

Yeah, the hundreds of examples of "you're selfish because I didn't get what I want and me me me that's not fair" are always good for a laugh.

[Canadane]

WoD pieces replacing FCoB pieces as best in slot? No thanks, and I haven't even started Final coil yet.

This is already the case with some pieces.

[Snugglebutt]

Agreed but at this point, I'm not even surprised anymore. The amount of people who agrees to these kind of ideas seems to willingly forego any semblance of global balance within the game because "I pay the same amount, raiders are elitist, insert other generic anti-raider statement".

Feel free to go into a comprehensive description of how WoD ilvl120 upgrade to ilvl130 would ruin the game or imbalance it. Every person does what they do in this game because they find it fun in one way or another, people would not stop doing coils because WoD offered a way to upgrade from ilvl120 to ilvl130 alongside the option of obtaining also another ilvl130 set from coils.

The only possible impact is people doing coil would only be doing it because they find it fun which is why they should do it in the first place. If it is not fun and people are not doing it for fun then the game is already broken and that would need t be fixed. The answer would not be to blackmail people into doing something they hate because of such restrictions, the answer is making something fun so that they want to do even without the loot restriction.

The phrase which pops to mind is spice is the variety of life, giving people more variety in ilvl130 sets and how to obtain them I consider a good thing. Getting a ilvl130 set from the top tier 24-man raid content and also another set from the 8-man raid content I think would not harm you 8-man coilers but would in fact benefit you all not just in more people geared up to try the coils but also in variety and gear composition you can use. No one has given me reason to believe otherwise.

[Utsu]

Finally, I can really answer to the thread now that I understand every points of view !

i130 gear in WoD ? Why not ! But not in the actual WoD, because it's a bit to easy and doesn't need a lot of time/farming (yeah, yeah, RNG).

Solutions :

Atm, i130 is Coil (skill) and Hunting (farm), so,

-> WoD "hardmode" ?
-> More farming ?

More farming could probably be the best solution imo.

PS : Yeah I really didn't understand why non-raiders want i130 gear, now I'm perfectly fine with it, I guess. There is two solutions to get gear, "skill" and "farm" with RNG in both of them. And if skill = farm, Coil = Hunting > WoD = farming tokens. I only talk about ilvl, not "best gear".

So, if ppl want i130 in WoD, they need more "skill" or more "farm", imo. Farm would be the best way as I said, or probably a mix.

Feel free to correct me if I missed something.

Cheers.