Allagan Empire

[lololink]

I'd say leviathan, He was also worshiped by pirates as the patron god of the seas. Plus he's all about flooding things and has a distaste of land dwellers, I heard somewhere that the primals used to exist along side the twelve before the spoken races came to eorzea.

I wonder how many primals are actually gods from the first era and not deified ancestors, Ramuh said that he lived before mankind appeared, so maybe he was one of those gods or First beings, while Bahamut seems to be a son of Midgardsommr and therefor wasn't a god at first.
That could explain why some gods looks close to their people : Shiva, Mog ( well he seemed to exist in the first Era too ) , Bahamut, Odin, Garuda ? ( she might look like what ixals use to be when they could fly )
While others a lot less (Ifrit, Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh )

[treuhavik]

Again, while we're on the topic of the Twelve, I have another theory. Of course, like most of my theories, it contradicts the others, but bear with me.

According to comparative mythology, ALL mythos (Gilgamesh, Jesus, Hercules, etc.) were stories created to record the movement of celestial spheres. The ancients made the known planets into Gods, Kings or Heroes (this should be obvious while looking at Roman mythology) and told the stories of their adventures (through the sky), feeling that it would be easier for themselves to remember and, being that they were entertaining, easier for the next generation to pick up and retain. They did this so their children would be able to navigate by sea, plant/harvest and everything else necessary to continue their 'modern' lifestyle.

In most religions/mythos, there is a heaven and a hell, and each is usually divided into seven sections or beings. In Mesopotamian mythology for instance, there were seven "Gods who decree" for the seven known planets, the moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, and the sun (arranging them according to the days of the week). It was also assumed that there were seven nether spheres descending under the earth: the 'seven hells'; whose seven gates were guarded by the seven Anunnaki or Maskim.

Now, we don't know what Eorzeans know of their cosmos, but I get the feeling crystals are of more importance to them, as they're needed for pretty much everything. If we look at crystals in FFXIV we have six elements; Earth, Ice, Water, Wind, Lightning and Fire. So, that's the first six of Eorzea's celestial mythos, but they must have names and opposites to complete the parallel. Well, a quick glance at Twelve will show you there are two "Gods" for per element; Six Astral (Light), Six Umbral (Dark). If we add Hydaelyn as our "Ultimate God" of light and Zodiark as our "Ultimate God" of dark, then we're sitting pretty damn close to nearly every religion/mythos ever.

Basically, if any parallel exists between The Twelve and an earth-based mythology, we can be 99.9% sure that these "Gods" never really existed as people, but were, in fact, ever-important elements personified (until their likeness is brought to life via aether and worship). I think we need to take another look at any stories of the Twelve we have, and perhaps translate them to natural events taking place on Hydaelyn.

__________________________

As for the primals and summoning, I think the same deal applies. The beast tribes are only attributed to one element, therefore that element is their ultimate deity, any manifestation of it is going to reflect them and their element. I think prior to dealing with the beastmen's primals, the wandering races wouldn't have been able to summon, say, Ifrit. Our depiction of a 'God of Fire' would've been Azeyma or Nald'Thal. However, now that Eorzeans know what Ifrit looks/acts like, we could say, "Hey, let's summon Ifrit!" and it would work.

I wonder how many primals are actually gods from the first era and not deified ancestors, Ramuh said that he lived before mankind appeared, so maybe he was one of those gods or First beings, while Bahamut seems to be a son of Midgardsommr and therefor wasn't a god at first.

Ramuh (and all other primals/twelve), remember the time before man, the time of balance, because lightning was there, wind was there, fire was there. They are the elements.

[lololink]

Basically, if any parallel exists between The Twelve and an earth-based mythology, we can be 99.9% sure that these "Gods" never really existed as people, but were, in fact, ever-important elements personified (until their likeness is brought to life via aether and worship).

But you are forgetting one very important thing, this is a Fantasy game, so it's a lot more likely that these gods really existed, in fantasy universes gods usually exist and aren't a way for people to explain things they cannot understand. Also according to the ascians Zodiark existed ( and possibly Hydaelyn ) before the world was what it is now, so at least these two are really real god for real.

[treuhavik]

But you are forgetting one very important thing, this is a Fantasy game, so it's a lot more likely that these gods really existed

They did exist. However, not as people like Eorzean myth makes them seem.

in fantasy universes gods usually exist and aren't a way for people to explain things they cannot understand.

It's not about explaining away what they can't comprehend, it's an incredibly wise way of telling a story of how the world we know came to be; a record of world history.

Also according to the ascians Zodiark existed ( and possibly Hydaelyn ) before the world was what it is now, so at least these two are really real god for real.

Light and Darkness always exist, in everything, since before time began, and their struggle against one another is just as eternal.


It seems in FFXIV, when an element manifests, it has recollection. This means that all aether has a collective memory, shared once it's returned to the stream.

[Sapphic]

Unless the twelve were "created" from mortals in a way similar to how Phoenix was "created".....

[treuhavik]

Unless the twelve were "created" from mortals in a way similar to how Phoenix was "created".....

It's possible, but I don't see it as probable since men supposedly didn't exist at the time. I'm betting that the depictions of the Twelve is based on stories of them.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Well lets get one thing clear for a second. The age of man has consisted of 6 astral eras and 7 Umbral Eras. (No I'm not convinced that the 7 astral era has begun just because we pwned The Ultima Weapon and killed Bahamut, Hydaelyn is still dieing after all) But the cycle of Ages actually starts with The 1st Umbral Era, The Calamity of Wind, brought an end to The Divine Era resulting in The Twelve leaving the world for the Races of man. Thus the Age of man begins and The Age of Gods end. (Think Assasin's Creed Precursor Lore)


So that seems to say that The Twelve were here along side the Races of Man (Miqo'te, Hyure, Elzen, ect, ect) and possibly even along side the beast tribes. But what does the legend of the Divine Era mean by "Left" this world? Could it mean they Transcended the Material Plane of Hydaelyn into the Aetheric Realm? I think it does. Thus why Primals, The Twelve, and many other beings (The powerful yet mortal Elementals excluded) have so much similarity. If we parallel The Aetheric Realm to The Lifestream and Farplain in that it's some sort of after life then it's possible that the Garlen interpretation of "Eikon", That being a God Like Creature summoned through the worship of a Deity or Ancestor, could in fact be true and ultimately solve the "What is a Primal" question.

Lets sat that Hydaelyn and Zodiark were the traditional "Creation Pair" for the world and The Twelve were created along side the "Primeval Element Spirits" (A theoretical origin for the word Primal) to guide and protect the mortal races (The twelve for the Races of Man, and The Primal Spirits the protectors of the Elementals and Beast Tribes) then The Races of Man start to war with one another thus bringing about The Calamity of Wind and the 1st Umbral Era. (Source Final Fantasy Wikia) This leads The Twelve to leave this world possibly going to the Aetheric Realm. How ever the primal spirits are still here but do not naturally possess a physical form.
Now enter the Primals (We'll use ifrit for this example). At one time The Amal'ja and Ul'dahans lived peacefully side by side and even allied against the Sil'dihns in the Ul'had-Sil'dih war, and now all of a sudden within the period of the Sixth astal era some one in Ul'dah starts a War (Lets say unprovoked) with the Amal'ja. The Amal'ja not knowing wtf just happened cry out to their Primal Spirit for guidance in the presence of a giant vein of fire crystals and all of a sudden Ifrits shows up in the flesh and is like "My children why do you cry out to me?" and the Amal'ja go "Oh great Lord of the Inferno, we are humbled you answer our plea, we beg of you protect us from the evil Ul'dahans who have betrayed our trust and seek to destroy us. T_T" then a large army from Ul'dah kicks in the gate at the Zahar'ak Holy land and is like "Surrender now and we'll kill you quickly" then Ifrit's like "Ah hell nah!!!!!!" And starts Hellfire blasting the Ul'dahan Army and tempering the any survivors that are left. Now all of a sudden the Amal'ja have an answer. U'ldah attacks, we pray to Ifrit in front of a large pile of fire crystals, then Ifrit shows up and torches them. Next thing you know the other Beast Tribes hear about it and do the same to their enemies.

Mean while The Twelve can't be so liberal in their aid because they left The Races of Man to fend for them selves thus Hydaelyn has to make new champions each time she's in danger (Lets say The Ascians by the same method are dead and or dieing individuals who were offered a second chance by Zodiark by becoming his Champions to oppose Hydaelyns' Warriors of Light) Well Hydaelyn gets weaker each time because, unlike the already diseased and incorporeal Ascians, each Warrior of Light is a seperate living being that she has to give a piece of her power to gradually weakening her to the brink of death over time.

The Ascians decide to speed this up by telling the other beast tribes what the Amal'ja discovered by accident and take credit for showing the Amal'ja too and all of a sudden beings from the Aetherial Realm of ages past are popping up all over the place. Mog King, Saint Shiva, and Endiku to name but a few, along side the Elder Primals Bahamut, who was called in ages past, and Odin the swordsman so vengeful to the Allage Empire that he opposed (Who knows maybe he was a good guy at first) that his essence converts his sword into a beacon for his will that lets him summon himself through the new weilder of The Zantetsuken.

Many years later now the Ascians have Hydaelyn on the brink of death and are about to complete their end of the deal for Zodiark and are so close to their reward they can practically taste it.

I know it was one of the Longest Darksteel foil hat theories ever, but this is the full compilation of my theory on "WTF is going on in Eorzea".

[AlexionSkylark]

They fled into space and built stargates in another galaxy! HA!