Allagan Empire

[lololink]

Silly theory ahead;

Not really, the allagan empire was opposed to all primals, they possibly sealed them and had anti-primal weapons ( Ultima, Omega ), they were more or less what garlemald is now. Therefor you won't see any sign of a primal in their buildings.

[VargasVermillion]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the red eyes only a trait of Allagan royalty, not the common people?

And wasn't Nael an Elezen male? Only Bahamut's reincarnation of him was Garlean (and female...)

He's always been 'garlean' the elezen body shape seems to be a common trait for garleans as well because one of the npcs currently in the scenarios has been discovered to be (spoiler) a garlean has similar shapes to a elezen, I wont name who but we know due to a poorly concealed third eye also if you look at any centurion model they are about the same height as elezen. People only thought nael was elezen because of his emotes.

At the very least it seems garleans can be taller than highlander hyurs.

[Nalien]

Not really, the allagan empire was opposed to all primals, they possibly sealed them and had anti-primal weapons ( Ultima, Omega ), they were more or less what garlemald is now. Therefor you won't see any sign of a primal in their buildings.

It's mostly silly for the potential implications for characters like Midgardsormr;

The legend, as told by Erik, states that, "There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia, goddess of fate. And then there was water, and through it the Silvertear Falls came to be at the center of all that was. Here was the source not only of water, but the fount of all magic as well. Now, when water came into being, so too did the great dragon Midgardsormr. Brother Time and Sister Fate, fearing the Falls might fall into the hands of evil, ordered Midgardsormr their protector and warden. Much later, with the arrival of man, would Midgardsormr be worshipped as the guardian deity of Silvertear Falls."

Now, if Althyk and Nymeia were Allagan survivors, that puts this legend in a new light. Instantly it would dispute the idea that Midgardsormr fathered Bahamut, and instead make him out to be something more like the last survivor of Meracydia, though perhaps he existed prior to that and upon the survivors of Allag returning to the location which caused the latest Calamity, a deal was struck; He would ensure the Tower is not misused again, and they would leave his kind alone. This could explain his presence at the Battle of Silvertear Skies, Garlemald was looking to occupy Mor Dhona and considering the events at Bozja Citadel (Silvertear Skies was 15 years ago, in 1.0 (before a 5 year time skip) Bozja Citadel was described as occurring 10 summers ago, iirc), their intention certainly would seem clear to Midgardsormr, hence the aggression.

Another mundane aspect of the Twelve is their rivalries, Halone is said to be a bitter rival to Nophica. This perhaps indicates that they had a difference of opinion when it came to reclaiming their technology, how to use it, dragons, etc. Interestingly the two most violent seeming Twelve are father and daughter, Rhalgr and Halone, while the others have mostly common titles (the Lover, the Traders, etc.). I'm thinking Rhalgr, Halone, and Byregot (being a builder rather than warrior) were fairly high up in society before it's fall, perhaps even holding resentment towards Dragons following the Meracydia conquest. That could explain the current situation in Ishgard. What's more, if Midgardsormr was protecting the most important relic of Allag to prevent it ever being misused again, perhaps his sons were doing the same; Nidhogg was ousted from his domain by Ishgardians at the City-States founding, their sin could very well be them taking back dangerous Allagan technology Nidhogg was safeguarding. That maybe-shield and suspiciously Allagan like blue line seen on the bridge to Ishgard in the trailer certainly indicate something...

Only issue with all this, and why I think it's potentially silly, is where dos Hydaelyn fit into all this? Midgardsormr actively acknowledges Hydaelyn and seems far more related to Her than to the Twelve. Some of the stuff really fits nicely though, like Midgardsormr opposing Garlemald because they attempted to recreate Crystal Tower at Bozja Citadel and then made a move for Crystal Towers resting place...

[treuhavik]

Entertaining theory. What you have fits well together. Though, there's another issue, aside from Hydaelyn;

There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia(...)And then there was water(...)Much later, with the arrival of man(...)

Right there; the Twelve pre-date water...(lol) and would the Allag not be considered man also? It seems to me that they would be the 'first men', with dragons being the first sentient race (like our dinosaurs [ask me how they killed themselves with their own atomic weapons]).

So, while the Allag were building primal pokeballs and farming solar energy, the other races were still in diapers. They could've even lived along side the Twelve for a short time; would explain their advanced knowledge and crazy aetheric technology.

No, I've got a hunch that the Ascians, the ones from this world, were once Allagan. They advanced through death via the Echo vs. the technologically driven Xandes/Amon. They're the ones that were teaching the beast tribes how to summon primals. I mean, who would know better than the Allag, right? ...I wonder why Ascians cover their eyes with those masks.

[Nalien]

Well, if the Twelve were Allag, modern Twelve mythology has been distorted by around 4,000 years of history. Everything prior to that is pretty much unknown, but if people held a belief that, following the Twelves deeds in life, that they were deities, they'd naturally eventually hype them up to creating the oceans and existing since the beginning, rather than originating around the end of the Third Astra Era.

Or perhaps Nymeia really did bring water to the world. Xandes Calamity was the Umbral Era or Earth after all, following that water could have been scarce. Silvertear Falls could have dried up (the Battle of Silvertear Skies drained it significantly iirc, and that wasn't even a full blown Calamity). Nymeia either brought water back, or was there when water returned naturally. Following that Midgardsormr shows up/wakes up, wants to know what happened, a deal is made and the Twelve and their followers leave Mor Dhona for good (the place has no ruins except Allagan ones, so I'd say no other civilization settled there following that). Fast forward a few thousand years and modern man arrives there, history having been long forgotten and warped into myth.

[treuhavik]

Fast forward a few thousand years and modern man arrives there, history having been long forgotten and warped into myth.

Yeah... It's a solid possibility, indeed interesting. Moose had a similar theory way back when - twelve Allagan heroes turned myth. Maybe I'm just underestimating the writer's. Everything is so conflicting... Do you think they intentionally made these story elements impossible to figure out, or are they just as confused?

[Sapphic]

No, I've got a hunch that the Ascians, the ones from this world, were once Allagan. They advanced through death via the Echo vs. the technologically driven Xandes/Amon. They're the ones that were teaching the beast tribes how to summon primals. I mean, who would know better than the Allag, right? ...I wonder why Ascians cover their eyes with those masks.

Could they have originally been warriors of light that changed to warriors of dark? (Ascians). As their are implications that their are similarities between warriors of light and Ascians.

Could Miggy be a type of a Warrior of Light also? As he is more than just a dragon. Also Allagans did very nasty things to dragons so why would Miggy allow the Allagans to imprison the primals there? Did Miggy work alongside the Allagans to imprison the primals?

Mayhaps the bad things started after they were sealed, when Xandes started his second reign of being a git. And before there wasnt the hostility between Allagans and Dragons. But one flaw is why would Xandes allow Miggy to continue to stay at the lake which was pretty much on the doorstep of Crystal Tower, being at war with dragons whilst allowing this major threat to persist so close to your main base seems odd at best. Miggy must have known or had some inkling at the very least on what Xandes regime where doing with the dragons. Or was he duty bound to not interfere to risk his charge given to him by Hydaelyn.

But Allagans had the tech and the ability to imprison Bahamut who is vastly larger than Miggy. So why was this tech never turned against Miggy?

My only theory that would fit is that Miggy didnt take up the mantle of watchdragon until after the Allagan empire went pop!

Pretty much gone off on a tangent from my original thoughts. XD

Regarding the 12, could they be, instead of seperate entities, just facets of Hydy?

[myahele]

While we're on the subject of the 12 one Limsan Lominsan tale was that when the world was created the land was dry, so Nymeia created a serpent who then task to bring water into the land. But that serpent didn't and was going to flood the world, so she sealed the serpent up to stop. And that where the motto "till sea swallows all" came from.

Not sure if that was talking about leviathan or midgardsomr

[VargasVermillion]

While we're on the subject of the 12 one Limsan Lominsan tale was that when the world was created the land was dry, so Nymeia created a serpent who then task to bring water into the land. But that serpent didn't and was going to flood the world, so she sealed the serpent up to stop. And that where the motto "till sea swallows all" came from.

Not sure if that was talking about leviathan or midgardsomr

I'd say leviathan, He was also worshiped by pirates as the patron god of the seas. Plus he's all about flooding things and has a distaste of land dwellers, I heard somewhere that the primals used to exist along side the twelve before the spoken races came to eorzea.

[Geist]

The serpent should indeed be Leviathan - the tale is coherent with the Earth-based myths it was derived from, as well. See this article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%...%29#Chaoskampf

As for Midgarsormr, I think the Covenant does most likely predate the Allagan Empire, including his role as the guardian of Silvertear Lake; while he might have butted heads with the Empire, especially if Bahamut was one of his children, it was ultimately the recent rumble with the Agrius that led to the events we've been experiencing throughout the game.

Also, I'd like to point out that the Allagans were a people, not a race in the strict sense (not in the same guise we refer to Elezen, Hyur and whatnot). The "our blood grew thin" line does explain that very well: the survivors merged and mingled with the people of the land, as far as Sharlayan - see what happened with G'raha Tia.