Of Tanking and WoD

[mosaicex]

JP DF's way

A takes left
B takes center/MT
C takes right

If B is new or not well geared enough they can ask other tanks to MT

Good thing about weekly lockout : You can roll greed and get pretty much anything you want (I got tank chest piece as DRG)

I must admit, I thought everyone did this. >.> Isn't it kind of logical to divide up mobs/bosses according to party position? Though a new transfer to my FC was surprised at how organized CT was on a JP server...

It's only logical. But then again, I've heard some ridiculous stories about tanks trying to out-aggro each other in CT, surely just a myth hopefully.

The EU way for WoD seems to be this exactly, except for Cerberus. Cerberus goes:

The composition just kind of sticked from the previous CT raids, but both do work well enough, I guess.

[Sadana]

JP DF's way

A takes left
B takes center/MT
C takes right

If B is new or not well geared enough they can ask other tanks to MT

I must admit, I thought everyone did this. >.> Isn't it kind of logical to divide up mobs/bosses according to party position? Though a new transfer to my FC was surprised at how organized CT was on a JP server...

[MaethusXion]

JP DF's way

A takes left
B takes center/MT
C takes right

If B is new or not well geared enough they can ask other tanks to MT

Good thing about weekly lockout : You can roll greed and get pretty much anything you want (I got tank chest piece as DRG)

The EU way for WoD seems to be this exactly, except for Cerberus. Cerberus goes:

A - Adds
B - Belly(get eaten)
C - Chains/MT

Unless, of course, you get that one person that facepulls everything and locks people out of the rooms... or the tank fighting for boss control... or the tank lack of control on trash rooms...

[Mahri]

u get that one person that facepulls everything and locks people out of the rooms... or the tank fighting for boss control... or the tank lack of control on trash rooms...

I make a habit of always checking "Join Party in Progress".

Thanks to this and getting locked out, I have discovered that /sdance matches the rhythm of the Cerberus/Xande/Phlegethon boss music perfectly.

[RhynAzullo]

The EU way for WoD seems to be this exactly, except for Cerberus. Cerberus goes:

A - Adds
B - Belly(get eaten)
C - Chains/MT

Unless, of course, you get that one person that facepulls everything and locks people out of the rooms... or the tank fighting for boss control... or the tank lack of control on trash rooms...

How I've seen JP groups do Cerberus is that A or C will get eaten, and the other will do the adds (one group will call out in alliance chat which one their group's gonna do). Then B takes the boss as usual. For chains it's usually just whoever is closest or starts moving in that direction first.

[EdwinLi]

The EU way for WoD seems to be this exactly, except for Cerberus. Cerberus goes:

A - Adds
B - Belly(get eaten)
C - Chains/MT

Unless, of course, you get that one person that facepulls everything and locks people out of the rooms... or the tank fighting for boss control... or the tank lack of control on trash rooms...

All DPS method seems to be the fastest of the strategies I've seen so far.

All DPS go into Cerb while all Tanks and Healers stay out side to tank and heal against Cerb and Adds. (1 healer can go in to keep the Unknowns from causing issues if they want but normally only 1 or 0 DPS players would die from a Unknown without a healer)

If the DPS know how to effectively DPS in Cerb belly then Cerb boss fight can be done in matter of 1 minute or less.

[Tiggy]

All DPS method seems to be the fastest of the strategies I've seen so far.

All DPS go into Cerb while all Tanks and Healers stay out side to tank and heal against Cerb and Adds. (1 healer can go in to keep the Unknowns from causing issues if they want but normally only 1 or 0 DPS players would die from a Unknown without a healer)

If the DPS know how to effectively DPS in Cerb belly then Cerb boss fight can be done in matter of 1 minute or less.

I don't like this strategy due to all the time DPS waste waiting to get small, waiting to get eaten, and waiting to zone in and out. People say it's faster, but it doesn't make any sense to be faster with so much DPS time lost.

[EdwinLi]

I don't like this strategy due to all the time DPS waste waiting to get small, waiting to get eaten, and waiting to zone in and out. People say it's faster, but it doesn't make any sense to be faster with so much DPS time lost.

It mostly faster because it causes Cerb to fall into his Awakening state which each time he falls he loses 30% of his HP. His Stomach walls have low HP and Defense so they're easy to burn down fast which would cause him to lose 30% of his HP easily.

If all DPS know can burn through Cerbs insides fast enough then he can lose that 30% HP within a easy 10 to 15 seconds.

Part of the speed is to remember Cerb's spit pattern being Phase 1 Cerb place the Orb on 1 person and then Spit the Purple stuff after and in Phase 2 he Spits the Purple Stuff 1st then place the Orb 2nd.

[Ophie-Mio]

I've heard some ridiculous stories about tanks trying to out-aggro each other in CT, surely just a myth hopefully.

Though the first run in CT I did as a tank my co-tank and I worked together and the other tanks didn't wanna start nothing, I've seen in previous runs just tanks who are animals towards each other.

The CT pissing contests were not fun to watch because the skeletons for instance are being fought over by two tanks and eventually it dies and blasts raid wide damage. KB is fought over and IG is roaming wild, mowing down healers.

A myth? I wish.

I don't like this strategy due to all the time DPS waste waiting to get small, waiting to get eaten, and waiting to zone in and out. People say it's faster, but it doesn't make any sense to be faster with so much DPS time lost.

We agree to this. I don't notice any difference in terms of how long it takes when I'm standing around with three Wolfsbanes. I only notice that when there are no willing OTs, the wipes become a bit more imminent because adds are left to roam wild.

Personally, I'll see it and take it as a challenge. When that happens, I'll usually have a threat-battle with 'em.
If someone asked me why I do this, I wouldn't really know the answer. By thinking about it for a second, I suppose it's because another tank is probably the only thing that can provide challenging enmity to benchmark against, so it's making me naturally try and see if I can match/beat it, despite the risk involved (spinning the boss, getting us or others cleaved, etc.)

See? Tank pissing contest. Despite the risks, they wanna see who the biggest enmity machine in the room is.
I'm like Misenklauph, if you voke it off me and you have better gear/if you can hold it, I'll let you keep it and I'll go to work on adds. It's the harder, more recognized job in terms of your healers. If you can't hold it, then I'll just shake my head and continue on and tomahawk the adds that they are ignoring while they attempt to steal the boss from me some more.

[Docent]

The CT pissing contests were not fun to watch because the skeletons for instance are being fought over by two tanks and eventually it dies and blasts raid wide damage. KB is fought over and IG is roaming wild, mowing down healers.

Labyrinth of the Ancient is an old raid, where there were many mistakes / learning errors from the designers.

I'll start with Behemoth: Tanks having a "pissing contest" here doesn't make much sense -- all 6 tanks have some task assigned to them usually - It's a pretty simple fight, with clear responsibilities for all. However, with the current gear level, you don't need the 4 tower tanks anymore -- the towers automatically reset when Behemoth "Grrrrrraaaarghs", from what I've observed. In any case, it should be 1 tank on Behemoth, and all tanks (1 acting as tank, others as DPS) on the IGs.

For Bone Dragon: This is the biggest encounter design error. There's 6 tanks, but really one is the MT, and then skeletons spawn in pairs at fixed HP%. If the DPS stops to kill the skeletons, then you have rarely more than 2 live skeletons up at a time. That's 3 tanks doing something, and 3 trying to help who end up screwing things up. The "pissing contest" here is due to every tank TRYING to be helpful.

For Thanatos: Here we face a new problem: A boss that way too often is never picked off the "main tank" who is suddenly unable to interact with him. This is a fight where tanks are meant to provoke off each other and switch main tanking (so where those so called pissing-contest are actually the "proper" way to handle it). For once, all "off-tanks" have plenty of targets to keep them busy. Probably so many, actually, that none of them think of dealing with the main boss when it's their turn.

---

You see a lot less issues in raids like ST and WoD, where the encounter design is much clearer, and the MT doesn't have to tank swap or anything of the sorts.

See? Tank pissing contest. Despite the risks, they wanna see who the biggest enmity machine in the room is.

Yep. A flaw of mine, and one I share no matter my job. I'll try to out-threat, out-tank, out-DPS or out-Heal people no matter the job I'm on, assuming I can. Everything is a race, a competition or a chance to prove myself, even if I'm only proving it to myself.

That said, with the gear I use when main tanking, there's only two type of tanks who'll steal the mob off me and actually cause the issues listed above (cleaving, spinning, etc.):
1) Tanks that are even more geared and aggressive than I am. In which case I won't be able to steal it back. (but I will try my best to match their threat line)
2) Tanks that are using provoke. I will never out-provoke another tank. But if you steal it from me that way, you better generate more enmity per click than me, or it'll just come back.

In other words, there's being a douche on purpose (standing opposite sides, using provoke, trying to "be the one tanking", getting people killed), and then there's being competitive and trying to prove to yourself you can out-threat the guy with better gear (staying elbow to elbow with him, using cooldowns, potions and every tool in your toolkit to build extra threat, watching who's the target of target, etc.)

By constantly trying to push my limits and learn just what I'm able to do, I try to better myself and my understanding of my own capabilities. To me, that's a pretty key element of my playstyle.
Meeting people who are on the same job and are better (gear or skill) players, then try to "compete" to match/beat them is one of the easiest way to know if you can push that limit even further.