Let's have a round of applause for bringing grind parties front and center in FFXIV

[Aion]

Please Please PLEASE make the empire attacks more frequent! Those are really fun, trying to push them back and the farther you push them, the more difficult it becomes. It's like playing a DoTA game from a personal pov. Of course, adding an SP reward for it would be much appreciated.

But yeah, that kind of event is fun, and I've heard of similarly fun types of quests coming soon so I'm willing to stick around to see them.

uh, how do I participate this? Damn I overworked lately, only got 2 hours or so to play.....

[Murugan]

So basically, everyone is under the impression that WoW invented dungeons, raids, and questing, and that any game that includes these is a WoW clone. How tragic.

No what WoW did was make solo generic questing the most efficient by far means of leveling a character. No MMO previously had done this, other MMO's since have. This makes them WoW clones.

This is what Neptune, Tonymontana, Gifforce, and several others want the game to be. A similar WoW clone. What they don't realize is that the vast majority of people do not enjoy leveling at all in WoW clones. They only tolerate questing because it is the fastest way of leveling. This type of questing can exist, but to have it exist on the level of WoW kills the possibility of grouping, something many people enjoy.

The Dev teams want people to be able to play their own way, stop trying to constrain us all to your WoW-type leveling system. The best that can be said about that type of gameplay is "at least it didn't take long". Well for once you people are right this is not FFXI, which means the leveling curve is no where near what XI's was. Stop complaining, you can still overall level just fine soloing and they have acknowledged problems with the current rewards at certain levels. You don't need to kill the game for people who enjoy grouping.

[Tsukino]

So basically, everyone is under the impression that WoW invented dungeons, raids, and questing, and that any game that includes these is a WoW clone. How tragic.

Progression through the game (leveling) by way of a large number of solo quests based on a few archetypes is exactly what WoW brought to the MMO world, and that is what the OP is suggesting FFXIV do now.

Quests existed before but were used differently in other games at the time. Dungeons and raids are entirely irrelevant and no one even mentioned them but you, because you're trying to paint everyone who doesn't want solo, quest-based progression as a blind WoW hater.

[Pyrix]

Neptune's a troll and a dick with a shitty game idea in a forum post in his signature. Just ignore him.

[Raim]

Progression through the game (leveling) by way of a large number of solo quests based on a few archetypes is exactly what WoW brought to the MMO world, and that is what the OP is suggesting FFXIV do now.

Quests existed before but were used differently in other games at the time. Dungeons and raids are entirely irrelevant and no one even mentioned them but you, because you're trying to paint everyone who doesn't want solo, quest-based progression as a blind WoW hater.

I just don't see whats wrong with having that as an option, even if its not the most viable leveling option. However, after the patch its nigh impossible to solo under any conditions, despite that being the direction that the developers said they would allow.

[Xatsh]

I just don't see whats wrong with having that as an option, even if its not the most viable leveling option. However, after the patch its nigh impossible to solo under any conditions, despite that being the direction that the developers said they would allow.

I disagree, I have people who do all their leves and do quest and get several levels outside events.

It is not optimal by any stretch... but it is still very doable.

[Wolfie]

Man, I really wish people would stop saying that grind parties promote skillful play. There was nothing demanding about FFXI's grind parties. All you needed was the right items, right job, and following a guide someone posted on Campistarus. All of the mobs picked for grinding were the least dangerous mobs, in the least dangerous camps. TP skills were spammed at will, few people used utility/enfeeble spells, and people stocked up on bard, red mages, and other buffing classes so that they wouldn't have to deal with MP management and whatever.

People had that s*** down to a science. Ironically, the only time leveling in FFXI demanded skill was when you were playing one of the solo classes.

[Charismatic]

I disagree, I have people who do all their leves and do quest and get several levels outside events.

It is not optimal by any stretch... but it is still very doable.

Yes, it's also 'doable' to get there by solo killing enemies several ranks below you for some of the worst SP/hr you've ever experienced. Let's not be stupid on purpose. When people make a statement like the one you quoted, Xatsh, you should read between the lines a little.

It's possible to get to 50 solo on leves alone now but you make very little progress doing so especially in the rank 15-30 stretch. SE does seem to have noted that their SP values in the 20-30 range are all sorts of borked so at least that much may change in the future but as of now it's... well, very bad.
Group grinding BY FAR OUTWEIGHS EVERY SINGLE OTHER LEVELING OPTION CURRENTLY AVAILABLE OTHER THAN IT. That's what people have an issue with. It's not like these guys are asking that solo questing be made better than SP grinding, just that it be close enough that you don't feel like you're wasting your time. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever why anyone would be against that.



Well, I can think of one reason but I hope it doesn't apply here and that it's "I got mine, screw you" and that attitude was very prevalent in the FFXI community beyond 2007 or so and most of the people who seem to be against evening things out appear to be former FFXI players. Now, common sense would tell me that's pretty much what it is but I'd like to think at least some of you are better than that.

[Cichy]

Man, I really wish people would stop saying that grind parties promote skillful play. There was nothing demanding about FFXI's grind parties. All you needed was the right items, right job, and following a guide someone posted on Campistarus. All of the mobs picked for grinding were the least dangerous mobs, in the least dangerous camps. TP skills were spammed at will, few people used utility/enfeeble spells, and people stocked up on bard, red mages, and other buffing classes so that they wouldn't have to deal with MP management and whatever.

People had that s*** down to a science. Ironically, the only time leveling in FFXI demanded skill was when you were playing one of the solo classes.

Not many things in XI involved skill in general. Almost ever fight was tank and spank, kite, or melee burn. All came down to paying attention. Like you said soloing was one of the things that required something extra. That and properly playing an endgame whitemage.

[Tsukino]

Yes, it's also 'doable' to get there by solo killing enemies several ranks below you for some of the worst SP/hr you've ever experienced. Let's not be stupid on purpose. When people make a statement like the one you quoted, Xatsh, you should read between the lines a little.

It's possible to get to 50 solo on leves alone now but you make very little progress doing so especially in the rank 15-30 stretch. SE does seem to have noted that their SP values in the 20-30 range are all sorts of borked so at least that much may change in the future but as of now it's... well, very bad.

I just came back to the game about a week ago after leaving around the time the forums opened. So far I went from 26 to 34 on THM, and most of it was done solo. I joined one grind party that got me about a rank and a quarter, and ran Toto-Rak a couple times but didn't really get much out of it already being over 30.

It's more than possible, much more than soloing in FFXI ever was. The balance seems fine right now, as solo progress is possible but group progress is demonstrably better which encourages it. If solo got just as much as partying, there wouldn't be enough people to form parties at all, because putting them together, going to a camp, and learning how to work together takes time. Solo is for jumping in the game for a couple hours and being able to make progress, while group play is for people who have several hours and can turn that into something more efficient.

If I can get a rank a day solo that puts me at the current cap in less than two months, which honestly isn't much slower than WoW and many other games. I think people just got used to the leve-sharing exploit and now expect to still get as much SP by soloing leves.

Granted, once they raise the cap significantly or possibly when they add jobs (depending on how progression for them works), the whole thing should probably be sped up so it doesn't take forever to reach that cap, but there should still be a gap between soloing and partying or partying won't happen at all.