Change default to make it so bosses can't be pulled during cutscenes

[Lainmyst]

You will one day be one of the people getting annoyed if you were forced to watch cutscenes (because you watch it once, and then never again, but would still have to wait around for others to).

My experience so far; those who love the lore and story of the game, also enjoy those cutscenes, and are happy to let others watch them, even later. Usually it's players who already don't like watching the cutscenes who tend to get impatient later on. It seems that just doesn't apply only to those two dungeons but any cutscene in any dungeon or trial. I remember some getting upset when anyone dared to watch the cutscene at the start of Levi, back when it first came out. Recently I ran the Gilgamesh fight for the first time and someone got mad that some of us were watching a cut scene. Gamers have been complaining about cut scenes for ages whether it is a Final Fantasy game or other RPGs. It will be interesting to see if this is ever resolved.

[Lainmyst]

[QUOTE=Deifact;2762485]They just made a big mistake with the inclusion of such long (and largely pointless) cutscenes in the story dungeons (the earlier ones anyway, the later ones they obviously learnt it was an issue).
First; the cutscenes in Castrium and Praetorium where hardly pointless. I have been able to do both and watch them all, they carried the story and had very important lore in them, obviously you didn't care and it sounds like your one the impatient ones that aren't really all that interested in the story,.
Secondly; only Stone Vigil before those two, and after them, there have been no dungeons, (until Keeper of the Lake) that were tied in with the main scenario. Perhaps Snow Cloak was but it was mainly just a new dungeon and did't involve Ice Heart directly. Both Castrium, and Paetrorium where special. Perhaps they could have been done a bit differently but cutscenes are a part of what Final Fantasy games are, I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

[fixitfelix]

First; the cutscenes in Castrium and Praetorium where hardly pointless.

Some cut-scenes would have been better expressed in another form. The first boss in Praetorium, Gaius could have been above on a gantry while you fight the boss, a dialogue goes on between Cid and he, with Cid doing something like trying to stop Gaius. Some cut-scenes do not feel natural to the flow of what is going on and even interfere with gameplay. Blowing up the airship while trying to kite a giant, that one could have been animated in the background making it look more awesome, and not making it a hassle kiting the giant. Turning off the alarms or polluting the cerelium in CM, taking you into a cut-scene is not necessary and breaks the flow of the run and would have been better expressed with a NPC leading or narrating what is going on. There are certain cut-scenes that could have been greatly condensed and the story be made actually stronger for it, mostly in Praetorium.

[Lainmyst]

In many ways I totally agree, I have seen what you have suggested in WoW. When doing the Sands of Time dungeons, Artus runs with you through part of them. I think Cid could have been running along with everyone and that explosion you talked about would have been much more exciting if we all witnessed in the actual dungeon. However I still don't believe they are pointless. That said, it's pretty much too late for SE to change those two story dungeons. This thread as it was started, is coming up with ideas that SE might implement at some point in the future, to make those two dungeons less of an issue for new players wanting to see the cut scenes. Also to remove what aggravates them the most, being punished by locking them out of the boss fights. When I got to see them in the dungeons for me and others it made those dungeons far more dynamic and pulled them away from being a typical dungeon.

[Lainmyst]

I use to play The Secret World. Before I decided to get that game the reviews I read praised the dungeons on how powerful they were. It was the cut scenes in them that took the dungeon beyond the usual dungeon experience. When I finally got to do them with a friend's guild, I was blown away by the fact that, even though they had done these many times, they all insisted I watch all of the cut scenes. They were similar to how they are done in Castrium and Paetroium that you watched them, then continued on with the battles. This was before FFXIV was released. My point here is: the community there enjoyed the story and wanted others to enjoy the story too, this isn't the case in FFXIV much of the time. My other point is even though perhaps they could have been done differently, when played as intended, I loved those two dungeons because they didn't feel like a typical dungeon. It would be good to somehow make a change that would allow many others to have this experience.

[fixitfelix]

This thread as it was started, is coming up with ideas that SE might implement at some point in the future, to make those two dungeons less of an issue for new players wanting to see the cut scenes. Also to remove what aggravates them the most, being punished by locking them out of the boss fights.

Ways to resolve the issue:
1. Remove it off the DF and put it as a PF only and have people who are friends and family or those who haven't run it go with you that wish to watch it with you.
2. Revamp the dungeon itself to make it more favorable to new and old alike.
3. Story DF is only available to those who haven't done it and can pull others for help by partying and queuing those in.
4. Change the lockout rules.
5. Make it 4-man party.

There is nothing stopping those from using the PF to call upon people who wish to experience the story for themselves.

[Lainmyst]

Those are all good ideas. I suggested earlier in this thread that they could be removed from roulette or at least make a main scenario only version that changes the lock out rules, then give some kind of bonus to those who are willing to help out the new players. The version that stays in the roulette could be cut scene free. A mix of your ideas may work as well. The only issue with the party finder, and it does have the option to request story focused and no cut scene skipping, that it can take a long time to get a party together that way. At least in my experience. That is why I think your one suggestion to "revamp" those dungeons to make them more favorable for new and old alike would be a good direction to move in.
I do know as we move forward past 3.0 and beyond, they will be almost forgotten, but there will always be new players. It would be good to make changes to make the experience a good one for as many as possible.

[fixitfelix]

At least make a main scenario only version that changes the lock out rules, then give some kind of bonus to those who are willing to help out the new players. The version that stays in the roulette could be cut scene free.

Already exists, through PF and partying and queuing with people in your party. The roulette is to reduce the wait time of people who want story mode so cut-scene free defeats that purpose. Lock-out rule changes to allow people into an encounter can easily be made fair.

it can take a long time to get a party together that way.

Its the compromise you have to make if you want to watch the story. There have been speedruns of CM and prae before the roulette existed (philostone grind?),they were doing it less than a month after release. Roulette made it worth more to run it, making it more of a speedrun fest along with the soldiery bonus from a new person gives them even more incentive to run faster.

[Lainmyst]

I am very aware that current and future players can use the party finder or make pre-mades. I think it is ironic that its the players who wish to run these two dungeons as intended are the ones being forced to make the compromise, though I am aware they are probably in the minority. I am also aware of, and had to deal with the history of CM and Paetro. SE did a hot fix that added WP and AK to get the tomes from, and changed CM to try and prevent speed runs, that of course led to new players having to wait along time to do those.
That said, my suggestions were just ideas that SE might think about; along with yours and other's suggestions in this thread. Bottom line is this will only affect future "new" players. I am sure these days new players, especially after 3.0 comes out are going to feel very rushed to get up to 50 and get their ilevels as fast as possible, to keep up with their FC mates. So I guess unless some kind of serious change is made, many new players will have no idea what the story is all about. i know some don't care but I know others do.

[Avenger]

Preventing entry into boss arenas while new players are in cutscene would definitely help. Locking new players out of boss battles because they are actually trying to experience the game narrative is shameful, and unfortunately extremely common.

Some people hate cutscenes, or have seen them many times before, but that doesn't justify destroying the game narrative for new players by forcing them to either skip cutscenes or miss out on boss battles.

Many people love the story aspect of Final Fantasy - for those players, watching the cutscenes in the inn (or battles on twitch/youtube) is nothing like actually experiencing them in context, without (yet) knowing how it's going to end!

(Guildhests might already have a system in place where players are locked in a blue circle while new players are watching the cutscenes?)

Item level sync would also help reduce the incentive for overgeared players to lock the healers (at least) out of the boss arena.