I think its time BRD get some loving

[Izsha]

Exempt it's not shakey. SE has a track record of buffing jobs when there is a negative consequence to players ability to participate in content. Their record aligns time and time again. Their statements are always about equal opportunity participation. So when I say need, I mean that players on those jobs are universally struggling to play high end content as that job. Examples:

*Wars being excluded in favor of plds. War buff.
*Melees being entirely excluded from lots of content. Melee buff
*Bards being overused in all content (same time as melee exclusion, and preferred over other ranged). Bard nerf.
*Blm exclusion on single target fights and movement fights (endgame). Blm buff
*Drg exclusion in raiding (based on magic def combined with lower dps). Buff

Every single solitary job buff was as a rule of widespread job exclusion in endgame content. All of them.

So when I say 'need' I mean are their widespread symptoms of bard exclusion. No.there arent. Quite to the contrary, they are INDESPENSABLE for endgame content. Their personal dps is bottom tier, yet time after time they are chosen anyway because they bring other aspects groups want MORE than dps. They enhance caster and healer dps. They enhance dps of other jobs on long fights or aoe sections(tp). So it's not about a bards damage. No one cares that it's low because they raise RAID DPS.

Bard doesn't need a buff until there are symptoms that support it (exclusion). There is no widespread exclusion, therefore bard doesn't need a buff. There's nothing slippery slope about that.

[AkashiXI]

Once again, each example you gave took either one patch or more to get adjusted. Those jobs became unnecessary, and therefore under used. Who's to say with the new expansion the same will happen to Bard? At the rate they're going, yes, they will become unfavorable, especially if the new jobs somehow give better raid utility. Who even knows if Yoshida is aware of how poorly Bard is scaling, which is why it's so important we make a thread dedicated to it (notice how I didn't say it in plural). You coming in here saying everything's fine now is showing how near sighted you really are.

[DoubleD]

BRD is very easy to play, a support class, and able to handle mechanics without interrupting their dps. Their dps isn't supposed to be on par with casters and melee. Its already a very popular class because it's easy to play. It would become too overpowered if it had a buff. If you feel so far behind maybe the class isn't the problem, but your ability to play it? There are many guides out there to help you increase your dps on BRD.

Really. Clear T13 plenty of time and do 430+ without a DRG in our group and we dont bother with buff pots now cuz we're so geared. so yes im not the best but i dont need a guide.

i dont know how many times me and other bards are saying this but we DO NOT expect to be on par with other DPS. We just need WD+1 buff because 2.4 nerf was not necesasarry.

And I will be blunt. If you play melee with = gear of a bard and are getting out DPS in FCOB against those sandbag bosses, you need practice.

[DoubleD]

Edit: Also stop saying we want to be on par with the other dps, none of the good Bards here are saying that. At this point you're feigning logic, and you're blinded by your Summoner melancholy.

Thank you.

[Atomnium]

My point is the need excuse is a slippery slope because the boundaries between need and want overlap to a huge extent, do people who want SMNs and DRG buffed want it for a guaranteed spot in raid statics? Is that need or a want to be more popular?

Not everything is subjective.
When changes are really needed, because the balance of the game itself is in danger, things need to change just like it was the case for Dragoon.
example : here
Today, it's the case for SMN and Yoshi-P is well aware of the problem :

I'm sure the job balance will be greatly adjusted when Heavensward is released, but do you have any jobs that you plan to adjust during the patch 2.5 series?
Y: In particular, I think we need to consider Summoner, but we're still working on the adjustments. Originally, we were planning to add new actions to Summoner with Heavensward to adjust MP consumption. However, since 3.0 is still a ways off, we're thinking about other careful adjustments. As we release each piece of content we see which jobs are too strong or not strong enough. We're also focusing on carefully adjusting things for 3.0, so we'd like to make adjustments as soon as possible, but please wait for a bit longer.

source : here

Do BRD need change? No. Could it be better with changes? Yes, just like every other jobs who are working.
Needed changes are not all about a guaranteed spot in a raid static, it's just to not be rejected from them and in a general way to not be benched from any contents.

You don't wait until a car completely breaks down until you bring it into the shop. If your engine light is blinking, you figure out why. The weapon damage issue is like a huge red light saying, "HEY, SOMETHING'S WRONG", and we've given you plenty of reasons to think so. Would you like the answer in braille too?

Show me some serious cases and situations where a BRD is not welcome and we will then talk, voicing your opinion is the right of everyone but it should be more used in a careful way.

Those jobs became unnecessary, and therefore under used. Who's to say with the new expansion the same will happen to Bard?
...
Who even knows if Yoshida is aware of how poorly Bard is scaling

Bard is poorly scaling? Where? When? Bard is an amazing job, providing ton a supports to its team while dpsing and moving, no positional, as Bard you literally flight through fights.

Stop pooping your pants, it's ridiculous really, nothing is happening yet and BRD don't have to suffer from any relevant problem. Just have more faith into Yoshi-P judgement if you want to continue playing for 3.0 and beyond.


All I see is very egotist main BRDs only asking to see their BRD life even more cooler than it is right now. Get into line, there is more important things to do first.

[DoubleD]

Oh and btw, those screaming bard is only supposed to be a support class, you do know they killed our best support skill right? 　Out of all the raids wiped i thing a whole lot of them would have been saved with a ROD pre nerf

[DoubleD]

If we're going to complain about bards not being close enough to casters in damage, why do casters not complain about not being near melee in damage?

Edit for DoubleD: I don't have a DRG in my group either? And I have no idea what you're talking about "melee with = gear of a bard"..?

SMN is complaining and its justified. BLM needs better single target damage, but hard to balance because they burn through pulls on dungeons. FCoB was practically made for BLM with all the adds/Melee nerf adds in T11.

And by = I mean both with 135 weapons and comparable efficient gear

Question for all the anti-bards. We were the weakest in 2.3. Was this 2.4 WD nerf that made us even weaker necessary?

[Izsha]

Oh and btw, those screaming bard is only supposed to be a support class, you do know they killed our best support skill right? 　Out of all the raids wiped i thing a whole lot of them would have been saved with a ROD pre nerf

People need to stop harping on rod. It's not gone. They took it from bard and gave it to war on storms path the same update. So instead of you blowing 180 tp for every tank buster, war can maintain the 10% dam reduction 100% of the time as a normal rotation. It's better this way. It's up all the time, doesn't utterly destroy your tp, and encourages tank diversity instead of 2 pld setups.

Complains about dps, also complains about not being able to blow 180 tp for every tank buster and big raid aoe when we have it for free now. #OfficialForumLogic.

[EdwinLi]

All I see is very egotist main BRDs only asking to see their BRD life even more cooler than it is right now. Get into line, there is more important things to do first.

Ah don't worry about it. Once 3.0 is released, a good amount or majority of Bard population will switch to Machinist becuase you know the saying "Guns are cool!"

Jokes aside:

Just endure it for 3 to 5 months longer and things may settle down once Machinist is released. Though depending on how Machinist plays out a certain amount may go back to playing Bard.

If lucky Bards may even get more new Songs that may prove to be very useful for all contents rather than simply Endgame raiding.

[AkashiXI]

snip

I'm commuting at the moment, so I apologize I can't reply to every part of your long winded reply. It's scaling poorly because of our weapon damage and our secondary stats are so critical (pun intended) that our main stat is being left behind. The % in how dps is being curved upwards isn't perpendicular to each DPS, meaning, jobs like Monk and Black Mage are benefiting more from the weapon upgrades than Bard does. What does it mean? It means we're starting to see dismissing returns, and while it's not enough to set us back NOW, it will be if the trend continues. That's the last time I'm going to explain it, since if that doesn't register with you, you'll have to convince me you're not a brick wall before we continue.

@Illen: please go to the DPS and look into the T11 dps thread, in which the OP requests various charts regarding top performances. There's even a reddit post snuck in there that compiles some of the data. I'd provide my own, but I'm currently traveling to Chicago and I won't be home for the weekend. Then again, parsers are illegal, so I don't use them