Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Sen_Terrechant]

Summoner gets screwed over on utility because Scholar has priority when using Arcanist utility.

For once Akiza, i agree with you here.

[Tex_Mex]

I can possibly get behind smn getting a dps boost, but by how much? Blm will cry for buffs until they are back on top. Then we'll have a repeat of this situation.

Given that BLM excels over SMN in these areas(AoE DPS, Target Switching Efficiency, Utility, Resource Management), SMN should have higher single target DPS output anyways. Allowing BLM to have higher ST DPS was a horrible design decision that will be rectified soon enough.

[Dwill]

Well, melee will be ignored in favor of ranged like the early stages of the game if rdps can do more damage. There would be much point to bringing mdps other than lb.

This just isn't true at all. You even said it yourself, ranged have to deal with more mechanics so therefore, with similar single target damage, melee DPS would still be ahead due to a higher uptime on the boss. The current melee > ranged gap that exists is just too big, especially since melee aren't even in more danger of dying than ranged in Final Coil. The worst time melee ever got sat in this game wasn't even due to damage, it was due to Garuda's stupid anti-melee mechanics.

[Leonus]

This just isn't true at all. You even said it yourself, ranged have to deal with more mechanics so therefore, with similar single target damage, melee DPS would still be ahead due to a higher uptime on the boss. The current melee > ranged gap that exists is just too big, especially since melee aren't even in more danger of dying than ranged in Final Coil. The worst time melee ever got sat in this game wasn't even due to damage, it was due to Garuda's stupid anti-melee mechanics.

You either ignored or omitted part of what I said. Groups found ways of giving mdps higher uptime by having ranged dps handle majority of the mechanics that would require a melee dps to leave the boss to perform them. It's not even the rdps some of of the time, the healers handle quite a bit too and of the rdps usually it's the brd. People found it most effective to have the mdps deal with just the mechanics around the boss or directly targeted on them as much as possible.

If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it. Melee could handle the same mechanics, but would loose far more dps than their rdps counterparts. In the end mdps always have to get back to the boss. Melee gap closers aren't up enough to compensate for the need to be in melee range. Shoulder tackle is every 30 seconds, drgs SSD (50 seconds?) and DFD (1 1/2 minutes?) and shukuchi for nin at 1 minute. Rdps can be almost anywhere after handling a mechanic and still do damage to a target without having to close as large of a gap, if any technically. (Unless preparing for the next mechanic which everyone does). Melee don't have that luxury unfortunately.

I think people have taken advantage of melees higher damage output and ranges mobility to keep optimum damage on the boss for the raid. The same could not be said If the roles were reversed. The scale, I feel, would heavily swing in rdps favor if/when rdps can equal or be close to mdps output (which blm currently can do with enough procs). You gain more than you loose by cutting out mdps in party makeups at that point. You get the dps and mobility in which both mdps/rdps lack in one or the other.

though I would say, if rdps got to be on par with mdps in dps, mdps Should get a big reduction on their timers for gap closing.

Anyways, idk how much more ST dps smn should have over blm. Too much and blm will complain until they get a buff because the feel irrelevant in content. It seems hard to balance on without starting a back and forth buff my class war. I like the idea of better Mp management for smn. Idk why, but I always found blm infinite Mp a tad bit ridiculous.

[Dwill]

Snip

I think you're the one who didn't get it. I'm not saying melee should handle mechanics. I'm saying that if melee gets more uptime on the boss due to ranged doing mechanics, ranged should have a better chance at competing against them in damage output because of that lower uptime.

[Akiza]

Giving Summoner more mp management changes nothing because we still have the issue of being completely outclassed by all DPS except Bard sometimes we're equal to or lower than a Bard. SE looks like they don't want the Summoner to have the highest sustained single target DPS so the Summoner will remain worthless in content that actually matters. Considering SE's stance on melee always being stronger than range and magic dps they should make a Melee DoT job and rework the Summoner into a job based around Elementalist Spells and Summoning Magic.

[Wintersandman]

Giving Summoner more mp management changes nothing because we still have the issue of being completely outclassed by all DPS except Bard sometimes we're equal to or lower than a Bard. SE looks like they don't want the Summoner to have the highest sustained single target DPS so the Summoner will remain worthless in content that actually matters. Considering SE's stance on melee always being stronger than range and magic dps they should make a Melee DoT job and rework the Summoner into a job based around Elementalist Spells and Summoning Magic.

I would hate to see Summoner reworked. I think this is a bit of over dramatization. I basically read your quote as "My SMN isn't as strong, please change everything." Summoner is by far my favorite class to play and would be equated to the beastmaster in FFXI. Great solo job just not as much preferable in groups. There is plenty of content in this game outside of end game raids.

Even looking at the new 5 mans, especially WP are not SMN friendly.

[Leonus]

Giving Summoner more mp management changes nothing because we still have the issue of being completely outclassed by all DPS except Bard sometimes we're equal to or lower than a Bard. SE looks like they don't want the Summoner to have the highest sustained single target DPS so the Summoner will remain worthless in content that actually matters. Considering SE's stance on melee always being stronger than range and magic dps they should make a Melee DoT job and rework the Summoner into a job based around Elementalist Spells and Summoning Magic.

So ever dps class besides mnk and recently (arguably) nin is worthless in content that matters because they don't have the highest sustained single target damage in the game...

that's how I read that post honestly. I won't quote anymore "why ranged do less damage than melee" posts anymore because I don't think many people get why it is happening this way and what the causes are for it. I will say that smn is going to get something, what it will be... we have no idea. However, if SE fails to deliver some balance between the two caster dps, and blm are left out in future content, the same issues will arise until the avid blm mains get their buffs. It will be a back and forth cycle. Just wait and see what SE is going to do. Yoshi already said they were looking into it.

[Akiza]

So ever dps class besides mnk and recently (arguably) nin is worthless in content that matters because they don't have the highest sustained single target damage in the game...
that's how I read that post honestly. I won't quote anymore "why ranged do less damage than melee" posts anymore because I don't think many people get why it is happening this way and what the causes are for it. I will say that smn is going to get something, what it will be... we have no idea. However, if SE fails to deliver some balance between the two caster dps, and blm are left out in future content, the same issues will arise until the avid blm mains get their buffs. It will be a back and forth cycle. Just wait and see what SE is going to do. Yoshi already said they were looking into it.

DoT jobs are different than direct damage jobs because they don't do damage up front. DoT jobs need to have the highest sustained damage in order to be balanced around end game content otherwise it ends up being in a situation like Summoner where there is a mass exodus from the job at endgame.

[Dwill]

So ever dps class besides mnk and recently (arguably) nin is worthless in content that matters because they don't have the highest sustained single target damage in the game....

This is totally based on unfounded fear.