Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Sunako]

2min cd for endkindle would be fine.

[Romsca]

I am hesitant for enkindle to be on a two minute cd just because spur is on a two minute cd. 2 minutes and it won't be a problem to rouse and spur boost it every time.

[Viridiana]

I am hesitant for enkindle to be on a two minute cd just because spur is on a two minute cd. 2 minutes and it won't be a problem to rouse and spur boost it every time.

BRD has Barrage at about 600-800 potency every 90 seconds, perfectly aligned with Hawk's Eye. Don't see any reason Enkindle couldn't be on the same CD as Spur.

[Romsca]

Not saying we couldn't. But since you bring up the potency on barrage let us look at the potency of enkindle. Ifrits enkindle is 300 potency after dot duration, per target hit for a max potency potential of 1500. Garudas is a max of 1250. Now up that by 80% after spur and rouse. Finally have that every 2 minutes?

Edit; did a bit of digging because I remembered a dev post about titans' enkindle. It also has a potency of 300 after full dot/aoe duration and hits 5 targets for a max of 1500 potency.

[Romsca]

Let me clarify that a little more Vi. Hawk's eye increases your dexterity stat by 20%. Spur and rouse increase the actual attacks damage by 40% each. Not even trick attack comes close to the sum damage done by enkindle with spur and rouse.

[Viridiana]

Let me clarify that a little more Vi. Hawk's eye increases your dexterity stat by 20%. Spur and rouse increase the actual attacks damage by 40% each. Not even trick attack comes close to the sum damage done by enkindle with spur and rouse.

If you're doing AOE, sure. Ifrit is 300 potency per target per 120 seconds (if we go with a 2 min CD for this example). Barrage is 606 or 808 (depending on timing, assuming AIW Bow) potency per 90 seconds.

Ifrit: 300/120=2.5 potency per target per second.
Barrage: 606/90=6.73 potency per second, or 808/90=8.97 potency per second. If we adjust for odds of hitting either outcome (about 72% for 606 and 28% for 808), we get about 7.36 potency per second.

So, speaking strictly by unbuffed potency, even with 120 sec CD Ifrit has to average almost 3 targets to catch up to Barrage. With the actual 300 sec CD, it's more like 7 targets. Now, even if you buff Ifrit by 80%, that's 4.5 potency per target per second. That would solidly beat Barrage's potency at 2 targets, unless you can consistently hit 8 Barrage-shots every CD (which would screw with the Barrage CD by about 2 seconds maximum and not really throw the potency per second off by much.

But, then again, I don't know how pet potency compares to BRD potency. So, yeah. . .

[Romsca]

And if it was only a single target attack that would be fine. I don't see black mages popping flare on a single target and that's 260 potency times 5 targets. Does astral fire boost that? I don't know. I am just hesitant for it to be on a 2 minute cool down. Spurs description says "increases pets magic attack power", rouse says damage.

[Romsca]

And also, barrage uses your auto attack on the bow, which is 52. Pretty sure pets scale off summoner weapon damage which for AIW grimoire is 81. Honestly it is late for me. I will take a look at it tomorrow when servers are back up.

[Viridiana]

And if it was only a single target attack that would be fine. I don't see black mages popping flare on a single target and that's 260 potency times 5 targets. Does astral fire boost that? I don't know. I am just hesitant for it to be on a 2 minute cool down. Spurs description says "increases pets magic attack power", rouse says damage.

Yes, but if we're talking about helping in FCOB, then it will more often than not be single target just because there won't be much opportunity for AOE. Who cares if it means SMN can speedrun dungeons better?

And also, barrage uses your auto attack on the bow, which is 52. Pretty sure pets scale off summoner weapon damage which for AIW grimoire is 81. Honestly it is late for me. I will take a look at it tomorrow when servers are back up.

Barrage is 6 or 8 auto attacks over 10 seconds. Each IAW AA (or Yoichi, which will be BIS soon) is 101 potency. And yeah, they both scale off of their respective weapon damage stats. The real question is the equivalency between Ifrit potency and BRD potency, which would have to be tested at the same Int/Dex, Det, and weapon ilvl.

[Viridiana]

And also, barrage uses your auto attack on the bow, which is 52. Pretty sure pets scale off summoner weapon damage which for AIW grimoire is 81. Honestly it is late for me. I will take a look at it tomorrow when servers are back up.

So, I had a bunch of math done, and then Ifrit screwed it all up with his Enkindle. For some reason, Inferno does damage disproportionate to the listed potency, at least compared to his Burning Strike attack. Burning Strike at 120 potency is giving me about 141 damage. The 200 initial potency from Inferno is giving me about 410, both numbers unbuffed. . .

Anyway, the stats I had were as follows: 463 Int/Dex, 281 Determination, Wave Grimoire/Bow. Also of note, Archer with the same stats (forgot at first to put on soul gem) was doing less damage than BRD with the exact same stats. Weird.

Full-buffed Inferno was about 1,200 damage. Really didn't have patience to run a lot of tests, but was hitting 3 targets at a time, each dot around 81 and initial hit around 810. So, 1,215 total?

Barrage buffed was about 143 per shot. Six shots would then be 858; eight shots about 1,144.

So, yeah, if Inferno were doing damage proportional to Burning Strike and their listed potencies, BRD would be able to keep on par; but Inferno is actually doing something like 540 Burning Strike potency or something. >_>

Unless someone else can re-test and see if I effed something up. . .