In-Game Parser.

[Lycelle]

I've raided before and quite honestly most gear is suitable for raiding. It boils down to player skill. Sure you're running numbers, but no amount of parsers is going to tell you how to do a rotation or how to dodge. It comes down to everyone's personal play style which is why a parser will always be a vicious tool to me. Because you are digging into someone else's personal business with the use of a parser, whether they want to hear about the numbers or not. The mentality of, "You have a low DPS score. Get out." Does not fly with me. I've raided and during those raids I've never really had an issue with anyone, I'm no hardcore elitist that thrives off parsing like it's a lifeblood. But I'm certainly not a casual person either. I enjoy progression just as much as anyone else, but I don't make it my goal to micromanage each skill and try to tap into everything possible about the class. Am I playing to my full potential? Probably not. Am I having fun with how I am playing? Certainly. I would never subject myself to going into a party without feeling comfortable as my skill as a player. If I know I am going to die a lot or if I DO die a lot in a raid I will openly tell people I am doing badly and I back out. I don't need a 3rd party tool to tell me I am doing bad when I can clearly see it myself.

Also for those elite players, why do you subject yourself to these kinds of people and then later complain about it? Why not just make an FC or LS with just elitist and roll from there. Stop blaming people in PF for your own lack of self-coordination. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and saying, "Play with bad or underskilled players." You make that choice on your own. The same can be said for casual players, stop going into PF's and pretending to know what you are doing, because at that point you become a liability to the rest of the group.

[Kazumac]

snip

If you are playing with a group that treats you like that, leave. They are not the friends you are looking for. By your same logic, no one has a gun to your head saying you must group with people who act like that or you must use parsers. So why deny the tool to the people who would benefit from it.

Maybe it's because I take the stance that I find people who I like to game with, I don't have this idea that I'm forced to play with people who will treat me like crap. I take my game experience in my own hands and make it what I want it to be (I suggest doing this). Therefore all I see is a constructive tool that others want to deny me all because they haven't learned how to deal with other people.

This could be why I don't see eye to eye with most on those because I play with like minded FC and LS people... And I know how to deal with 12 year old maturity and bad adittudes. Novel idea huh?

[Lycelle]

Well in terms of "right now" I don't. I sit in my FC house crafting all day. My progression has come to a stand still, back when i90 was the cap I was excited about progression and did a lot of min-maxing and tried out different styles. But now I see no point to it if it's just becoming something players can use as an excuse to be ruthless. It's just something I don't want to deal with, I pay my monthly fee like everyone else so like you said I take the game experience in my own hands and I just go from there. I shut myself away inside my FC house and simply craft, I'm tired of the elitist bigots, I'm also tired of the bad players. So I'll probably give up raiding until I can actually find a good solid group that will take me for who I am as a person, rather than the gear I am wearing.

[Kazumac]

snip 2

Well I do apologize if my reply is/was a bit on the aggressive side and I'm sorry to hear that you've had difficulty finding a constructive group to run with. I am hardly on the tip of progression myself as my friends like spending time on a variety of content outside of raiding but we've all seen the benefits of a constructive approach to improvement that solid metrics can bring to the team.

I can count the times on one (actually zero times) hand that I've seen it used as a ruthless tool to belittle or ostracize another player. I'm sure it happens (but this happens from many sources not just parsers), I just as a rule don't run with those types.

[Lemuria]

I can count the times on one (actually zero times) hand that I've seen it used as a ruthless tool to belittle or ostracize another player. I'm sure it happens (but this happens from many sources not just parsers), I just as a rule don't run with those types.

I've seen so many examples of parsers being used to ill-effect in video games that I honestly don't see their benefit other than to compare egos. I'm fine with some kind of self-improvement, a means to see only your own DPS and overall damage, but I see it as highly detrimental to compare them to your teammates without prior consent.

It has already been used before to belittle players, such as in Frontlines where myself and other healers were insulted for doing more healing than damaging (go figure). In an ideal world, we could all be mature about it and see it as a guide for self-improvement, but there will be plenty of players who see it as a way to boast superiority.

[Zeful]

Maybe it's because I take the stance that I find people who I like to game with, I don't have this idea that I'm forced to play with people who will treat me like crap.

So do the casual players. This is not an argument of efficiency or playstyle or any of that shit. It's an argument of motivation. Players that are against parsers see the attitude of people like this:

Yes, let's embrace mediocrity. Excellence is a sin!

As shitty, and thus see the proliferation of parsers in general as the game actively forcing them to play with people who will treat them like crap. This is the huge fucking disconnect that the raid-lifestyle players do not fucking get (which I can only assume is, generously, because they are too stupid to get it) and continue acting high and mighty about it as if numbers are somehow sacred.

Giving players tools to encourage excellence only work when a player is given time to use them. Given the current attitude of the raiding player-base like Ellatrix, a parser is worthless, because they won't give that time.

[Ehayte]

Everyone that is against an in-game parser: What is your issue with a self-only parser?

[Xystic]

Everyone that is against an in-game parser: What is your issue with a self-only parser?

Well if you have a parser, your comrades will now ask you what your parser number is if dps looks a bit short.

Cough.. this is where you lie

[Kazumac]

They already treat you like crap without a parser... So not giving them one will what improve things? Seriously having one changes nothing elitest jerks will be there regardless (as already shown in your example). Some people will be jerks and use whatever is in front of them to belittle others. Yea they would use parsers to do it and in the absense of parsers they use something else (as they do today).

I've run with people using parsers it did not magically turn someone into an jerk. But yes I concede an elitest jerk would use it against you, just as they use your achievements, completion record or anything else they can already. Should we just take chat away? Because they can use it to belittle you? Again chat is used many times to hurt others.

Please dont deny useful tools. Handle the jerks they way you should by not giving them the privilege of playing with you.

[Noshpan]

I have no issues with parsers themselves. They're handy tools. It's the wanna-be raid hero cock weasels who use them to belittle others with the parsers. Especially when used to belittle roles that, mechanically, do not perform at the same level as other roles (say a Monk belittle a Dragoon for not having the same damage output, for example). And I've witnessed enough of these parser abuse over the 8+years that I have been playing MMOs, that I, frankly, would rather not have them. Especially when it's obvious that these self-styled raid heroes know nothing about other roles than their own.