White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Sebazy]

To be honest, double SCH is the standard for BCoB as well.

I honestly never saw it (and my FC was right at the sharp end of progression right out of the gate), I've always had both healer jobs geared and have always switched back and forth as needed, yet the only point where I honestly felt like I was missing out was on T5 with death sentence/infirmity. This was offset by the benefits of full fat Stoneskin to blunt that big hit (We were tackling this turn whilst still primarily in Darklight) some more alongside timing a cure II to land between the DS and infirmity taking effect. To make a long story short, we never felt the inclination to switch and I certainly don't remember seeing any of the top 10 kills using double SCH either tbh.

Perhaps it was a pug/NA thing?

[Parawill]

Just to clarify, Slib... I believe you're specifically speaking in the event where IF you were to take a Scholar or a White Mage to solo heal content that does not require the need of two healers, you would take a Scholar over a White Mage because:

White Mage's raw healing isn't needed in that situation.
Scholar offers increase in DPS while providing their own DPS, plus sufficient amount of healing to keep everyone alive and reasonably healthy.

If so, in that situation--which is the singular perspective in which I favor Scholars over White Mages--I will respectfully agree with you. But in the case where you're debating between the two classes for any content and any situation aside, having both will always be better. This especially holds true when progressing (learning) new content.

[Velox]

I honestly never saw it (and my FC was right at the sharp end of progression right out of the gate), I've always had both healer jobs geared and have always switched back and forth as needed, yet the only point where I honestly felt like I was missing out was on T5 with death sentence/infirmity. This was offset by the benefits of full fat Stoneskin to blunt that big hit (We were tackling this turn whilst still primarily in Darklight) some more alongside timing a cure II to land between the DS and infirmity taking effect. To make a long story short, we never felt the inclination to switch and I certainly don't remember seeing any of the top 10 kills using double SCH either tbh.

Perhaps it was a pug/NA thing?

It was very prevalent on NA servers sadly. It didn't start that way though (my first group formed before t5 was cleared), it really only became an issue once groups started clearing t4 and t5 regularly. At first parties were going in with 1 of each healer because the fights were unknown. Once people realized how little AoE damage there was (remember this was pre-enrage t2, we were all doing it the designed way at first), they started scrubbing WHM for SCH. After my first group quit the game, I spent almost a month looking for a new group that fit my schedule (when you work a job with non-defined shifts, having a "static" is incredibly hard T_T). All the groups I tried out or just filled-in for all requested I play SCH instead of WHM. It became common knowledge, and they would all say the same thing when asked, "WHM isn't needed." Soon after that the "LF 2 SCHs 4 COIL" shouts and PF listings started up and it became more and more of a problem as the meta shifted in people's minds.

[DarkmoonVael]

Lustrate is not a cure 2 either. It is a panic button that is used when someone dips low and needs to be topped up before incoming spike damage. Having three of these at your hand every Aetherflow is very very useful in scripted, PvE content.

I can see what you are saying about a panic button since it is nearly instant, but i would describe it more as an integral part of resourse management for a scholar (aetherflow), and is usually used on a tank where a whm would use cure 2. The only time i have recently resorted to using it on a non tank is in the final phase of turn 12 when people get hit by a phoenix egi just before flames of rebirth and such situations in turn 13. Unless it is used to make sure a dps/healer doesnt die immediatly to a mechanic, lustrate is best used on a tank as part of your normal healing and resource management.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

My main point is that there are obviously things that WHMs do better and/or differently than SCHs and that WHMs still don't need "fixing" beyond allowing Shroud to scale with Max MP going forward.

I'm not so sure about the shroud scaling. It would remove the whole mp management aspect of the class. White Mages who use shroud when they're low on MP (keeping shroud off CD) will certainly welcome this. But the white mages who use it the moment they're 900-1000 under maximum and keep it on CD will have a crazy abundance of MP. While this may or may not mean white mages can change their BiS gear to focus on other stats. In what other stat should white mage focus on then? If there's not enough Piety Shroud won't be as effective and with too much you'll be some MP piggy bank. I don't believe shroud scaling will do anything worthwhile aside from creating more extreme ends of being MP-deprived or MP-abundant.

[Cynfael]

Snip

I'm thinking more towards a hypothetical future where, say, 8k max MP is average for WHM and the MP-restoring benefit of Shroud becomes virtually unnoticeable unless ramped up commensurately.

Also consider that not only are the base MP costs of existing skills likely to scale up as character level increases to 60 and beyond, new skills will possibly have their own significant MP costs to balance any increase in MP gain.

Basically the thought is to maintain status quo, not munchkinize WHM MP management.

[Elkya95]

snip

That must have been a server thing, been on a NA server since launch and never seen people look for two sch, people always wanted one of each.

[Kelya]

You solve the problem by your own answer about MP Cynfael. Leveling until 60 will increase the MP cost of every spell as well as increasing your mana pool. This leads to things still proportional (more mana to use but more cost). About Shroud itself then, remember that since you'll have more piety, you will also have more natural MP regen. Even if things stay proportional, bigger natural MP regen means you will need more and more time to consume your mana pool as you add piety (situation from now where ppl go Piety build) / as you level up (situation coming soon with the extansion). The bigger natural MP regen will compensate for Shroud not to scale. This is already the case currently : having tons of Piety is a lot (not to say completly) changing the WHM gameplay. Having 5,2K + MP makes Shroud a joke since you have so much MP you even can forget about the spell itself if you want.

At least, that's how I analyze it, I can be wrong or forget another thing too.

[Cynfael]

Snip

You and Lyrica are not wrong about the increasing scale of MP regen, but by that logic we might as well remove the MP benefit of Shroud entirely.

I do believe I am correct in predicting that Shroud will lag hilariously behind in the future if not addressed at some point, assuming that everything else scales up (both MP expenditure and passive regen) while Shroud remains untouched. It's fine for now, but will need tweaking down the line if we want to maintain status quo.

Edit: Also remember that we've been running at lvl 50 MP costs with hugely inflated ilvls for some time. There's no guarantee that this dynamic will continue when clvl increases.

[Kelya]

Maybe they can increase the flat amount of MP provided by Shroud in a sort of tier/level/step (sorry I'm french -_-). Something like now it's X for lvl 50, it will be X+1 for lvl 60, X+2 for lvl 70 ect... But still without scaling. That could satisfy players who worry about Shroud not increasing at all at lvl 60 as well as those who worry about loosing some challenge on MP management.