I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

[Delily]

This is the only retort I will reply to.
The Japanese voice and text has been pulled and translated directly here. Additionally, members of the EU community have spoken out about the FN and GR translations and have confirmed that its text and tone matches the Japanese version.

That's 3 languages to 1 in terms for versions of the story. And as it has been said, many times, there is a difference between there argument of preference and the argument of facts. Those who are arguing preference are wasting their breath. They are entitled to their opinion, I don't agree with them, and they seem far more content to insult me, or debunk me than concede that opinions differ and let mine stand.

Nor are they truly explaining their viewpoint in defense of their perspective, they're arguing instead that theirs is more valid cause Koji tried to sell his approved localization. What I am saying is I'm not buying it. I appreciate the idea of having text stylized for each region, but this, in my opinion, goes too far. I draw the line at the altering of character depiction, and have just as much problem with Midgardsormr as I do the Ishgardian House Lord residing in Fort Dragonhead. (If you did not know, other game versions depict him as a pervert.)

If you wish to continue this conversation and defend your preference, to the point where I would be interested in engage. Approach this from a pesonal perspective: Why do you prefer the current style? Why would you prefer a character depicted differently than all the others? What sense of value is added in having a character re-described to the point where it causes a conversational rift with those of our community that are multi-lingual?

I don't find it right that 'Old Sage Midgard' got depicted as an insulting louse with a superiority complex in only one language. I don't think it's fair to have someone ignorant of the different depictions entering a conversation in the international community of this game having an opinion fueled only by the 'stylized' translation of a single Localization team of four. I believe having a united vision of the game serves us better to bring our separate communities together rather than differentiating renditions of said story, especially as some of us still share server space with those of different languages.

This is why I don't approve, and I hope the EN Localization team takes that into consideration.

I'm fine with the fact that you don't like the story. The argument is more over whether or not the the localization is valid. However, to your point, I have no concerns about the fact that Midgardsomr is portrayed differently in the English story than in the Japanese story. It's the same perspective as fairy tales. There is a Cinderella story for every culture there, and while they share the same theme, they are different in how they deliver that theme. It makes them all interesting. I personally prefer the fact that Midgardsomr is not impressed by our power. I like the fact that he knows what's coming, what it's going to cost, and how he's not afraid to stand in front of the WoL, grind her face in the truth saying she's been a pawn along and now she needs to take control is she's going to survive.

[Hyrist]

I'm fine with the fact that you don't like the story.

Stopping you here.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm disapproving of a depiction of a character in reference to the world context, not the story itself. Indeed the story is yet to be told, we have but a small fragment of the story as a whole - yet, one localization has Midgarsomrs intent diluted in murky speech and outright differences in information told. And the other three are rather straightforward.



And I disagree with you referencing fairly tales as a reason to approve of writing discrepancies. This isn't the age of Grim's Fairy Tales, where a story gets retold over generations and gets provided a different viewpoint or even an entirely different plot over and over again. Nor does that sort of logic apply here, as that would imply that the story itself should change to appeal to each individual audience. That only works in individual depictions of a tale. Like how 'The journey to the west' is depicted in many games and litterateurs throughout Japan. or the Hero's Journey is often referenced in game materiel and folklore.

This is the information age, in which we need not be divided by tones of culture, our viewpoints appealed to as if we're too immature to handle that some things are different than what we initially understand. In which people are, at the same time, side by side, being told two different depictions of a story by the very same global storyteller. Sorry, but I don't agree with that vein of logic.

And MANY Square Enix fans felt to same way - to the point where there was fan-translations of classic Final Fantasy games on emulators to better depict the story told, and to the point where those same games got re-localized when they were re-released later on.

Or how North American audiences pushed hard to get a local version of the 'Ultimate Editions' of many Square Enix games, such as the like of FFX, FFX-2 and the Final Mix of Kingdom Hearts games.

I do hope you understand the intention in wanting a more universal depiction, as well as the appeal of it. I suppose its the difference of exclusive and inclusive desire, neither one is incorrect. But in a game, a seriese, that often attempts to bridge gaps and traditionally pushes for acceptance and unity, to keep pushing the depictions apart from each other strikes me as rather contrary to overall theme.


Also, Intaki, site your source on the matter of how FFXIV is an exception of localization. I do beleive you're misinterpreting your pet interview.

I believe you have it backwards. Though this matter could easily be resolved by a Community Rep clairfying the matter. However by my participation and research of the process:
The Localization teams do not participate fully in the writing process. Rather it is the writing team that partially participates in the Localization process. And only to a certain extent given all the difficulties an international company of a non-English speaking origin has.

This is easily evidenced in the fate of the use of the name "Acheron" and how the development and writing team did not keep the Localization team informed of future plans. (Localization team used Acheron to substitute for a different phonics of the name Translated as Titan in Japan.)

Regardless, in either of these cases, it's pretty boggling why there's such a difference in tone between the English and other language depictions if indeed your assertion is true. If that's the case, all depictions of Midgarsormor ideally should have been highly similar if not outright the same, yet, such as the case is, North America's is not, thus we are here debating the issue.

And the reigning authorities at SE disagree, as do many players.

You're welcome to have your opinion, but not all opinions are created equal.

And yet you seem to have none of your own at all.

Are you a pawn, or a master of your own fate?

What fate have you wrought with your own hands?

... you know what, I might not mind that particular translation after all.

[Illya]

And MANY Square Enix fans felt to same way - to the point where there was fan-translations of classic Final Fantasy games on emulators to better depict the story told, and to the point where those same games got re-localized when they were re-released later on.

One of the most notable examples of this was Final Fantasy Tactics, a game which had a rushed English translation script that bordered on being hash at times. For the PSP re-release The War of the Lions, it received a complete re-translation which corrected many of the problems in the original game's script.

Unfortunately it also removed the legendary "Tough. Blame yourself or God." line. Sometimes bad translations become iconic.

[Kazumac]

Unfortunately it also removed the legendary "Tough. Blame yourself or God." line. Sometimes bad translations become iconic.

I'm glad I am not the only one with a soft spot for iconically bad translations ><

On topic though whether approved or not by some higher authority in FFXIV I don't like the idea of the deviations and tone and personality between language versions. I do think the deviations are well done and entertaining but I would like them to be consistent in tone and character as much as possible.

[Atmora]

One of the most notable examples of this was Final Fantasy Tactics, a game which had a rushed English translation script that bordered on being hash at times. For the PSP re-release The War of the Lions, it received a complete re-translation which corrected many of the problems in the original game's script.

Unfortunately it also removed the legendary "Tough. Blame yourself or God." line. Sometimes bad translations become iconic.

I mean there's also FFVI where the original localization was almost universally considered better written than the more loyal handheld script.

[Delily]

Stopping you here.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm disapproving of a depiction of a character in reference to the world context, not the story itself. Indeed the story is yet to be told, we have but a small fragment of the story as a whole - yet, one localization has Midgarsomrs intent diluted in murky speech and outright differences in information told. And the other three are rather straightforward.

This is where we will have to disagree. I am perfectly ok with the NA localization team altering the tone and even the personality of a character if it, in my opinion, improves the story.

And I disagree with you referencing fairly tales as a reason to approve of writing discrepancies. This isn't the age of Grim's Fairy Tales, where a story gets retold over generations and gets provided a different viewpoint or even an entirely different plot over and over again. Nor does that sort of logic apply here, as that would imply that the story itself should change to appeal to each individual audience. That only works in individual depictions of a tale. Like how 'The journey to the west' is depicted in many games and litterateurs throughout Japan. or the Hero's Journey is often referenced in game materiel and folklore.

Have you ever played the game "telephone"? Even in a circle of people sitting together, an idea gets encoded and decoded by people differently. The same applies here. Doing a straight English to Japanese translation

This is the information age, in which we need not be divided by tones of culture, our viewpoints appealed to as if we're too immature to handle that some things are different than what we initially understand. In which people are, at the same time, side by side, being told two different depictions of a story by the very same global storyteller. Sorry, but I don't agree with that vein of logic.

The fallacy here is the claim of homogeneity, that somehow a story that would appeal to a Japanese audience would appeal to an English audience. Any company that develops products in different countries understands those countries have their own culture, and thus they should try to develop and market the product differently. Case in point, a relative of mine, while working in London, got a job as the United States spokes-person for a company that sells snack food. Same product, same basic line, but they hired her because she understood American culture - our history, our references, etc enough to translate from their English message to their US message. Another example, look at the styles and tones of manga as compared to comics. Square may be telling a global story, but they do need to temper that story to the audience in question.

I'd disagree with the claim that the English localization team thought we were too immature. I think the NA version is far superior to the Japanese version.

And MANY Square Enix fans felt to same way - to the point where there was fan-translations of classic Final Fantasy games on emulators to better depict the story told, and to the point where those same games got re-localized when they were re-released later on.

Having lived in that age, as well as the original Dragon Ball Z, it was because those translations were terrible and heavily censored. That is not the case here. T

Or how North American audiences pushed hard to get a local version of the 'Ultimate Editions' of many Square Enix games, such as the like of FFX, FFX-2 and the Final Mix of Kingdom Hearts games.

I do hope you understand the intention in wanting a more universal depiction, as well as the appeal of it. I suppose its the difference of exclusive and inclusive desire, neither one is incorrect. But in a game, a seriese, that often attempts to bridge gaps and traditionally pushes for acceptance and unity, to keep pushing the depictions apart from each other strikes me as rather contrary to overall theme.

Unity does not mean uniformity. A good story teller will tell a consistent story every time. A great story teller will tailor the story to his audience.


Also, Intaki, site your source on the matter of how FFXIV is an exception of localization. I do beleive you're misinterpreting your pet interview.

I believe you have it backwards. Though this matter could easily be resolved by a Community Rep clairfying the matter. However by my participation and research of the process:
The Localization teams do not participate fully in the writing process. Rather it is the writing team that partially participates in the Localization process. And only to a certain extent given all the difficulties an international company of a non-English speaking origin has.

This is easily evidenced in the fate of the use of the name "Acheron" and how the development and writing team did not keep the Localization team informed of future plans. (Localization team used Acheron to substitute for a different phonics of the name Translated as Titan in Japan.)

Regardless, in either of these cases, it's pretty boggling why there's such a difference in tone between the English and other language depictions if indeed your assertion is true. If that's the case, all depictions of Midgarsormor ideally should have been highly similar if not outright the same, yet, such as the case is, North America's is not, thus we are here debating the issue.



And yet you seem to have none of your own at all.

Are you a pawn, or a master of your own fate?

What fate have you wrought with your own hands?

... you know what, I might not mind that particular translation after all.[/QUOTE]