What is happening to healing in pvp?

[Tarta]

I am heals in PvP. I just soak dmg until the warrior/ninja kills me. I last as long as my sprint/regens lasts. If I have cooldowns, I will last the time the cooldown lasts, unless warrior has his Stun open. Then I die.
I came to terms with this a while back.
You have to stop thinking of the WHM as a healer.
You have to start thinking of a WHM as a harrasser/sponge. Bait stuff away from nodes with sleep punish, and absorb 2 DPS worth of dmg. That's it.

[Nalien]

Which is wrong. You called people bad who aren't bad. You can be a mega-boss frontline healer and not get any kills. Zero.

Good Healers contribute more than just HP Restored and can get kills by virtue of that alone. I wasn't saying good Healers always get multiple kills per round, or that they should focus on DPSing, I was simply saying that good healers can get kills period. It's the mindset of "We lost Clerics Stance, we can't attack now" that both confuses me and lead to me making that statement. Healers can do damage and can kill in Frontlines. Losing Clerics Stance did not change that fact, it simply nerfed a Healers ability to do so, it's still more than possible. I am really not arguing that healing or support are less important, I'm simply saying that Healers have opportunities to deal damage in Frontlines and the good ones take those opportunities. If you're not trying to deal damage when healing isn't a priority then I honestly don't know what you're doing after resistances build...

You're really oversimplifying matters as far as I'm concerned. With seven other party members around me am I likely to get a kill? No, not really. I've been in plenty of situations where I wasn't surrounded by my entire party though. Christ, I've been in enough 1v1s... I suppose that's less about being a good <role> and more about just being good enough at Frontlines to not let people ignoring OP be enough to lose you it though. If every single encounter in Frontlines was an 8v8 you'd have a point, I've played enough Frontlines to see plenty of other scenarios play out, though.

As for these Achievements encouraging bad play, did the Drone/Node Achievements encourage A and C to abandon their locations in favour of Mid? The Achievements may also be more reasonable for DPS, but they're still fairly big Achievements. 5,000 enemies slain? Unless that's counted as a group that's going to take a fair amount of time, even for a DPS... Even if SE goofed and they're for individual kills, I really don't see them having the power to make people actively aim to lose... If Achievements had that kind of power everyone would be a Tank for their Warlion. I'm sure a few individuals will deem the Achievements worthy enough to refuse being a Healer instead, but no where near enough to actively have an impact on the majority of matches...

[Ametrine]

White Mages are tanks in Frontlines anyway.

I main tank in frontlines and wolves den, and it feels more like a buff-based job with lower dps, as you'll be spending more time utilizing Tetsudo (large aoe defensive buff) and your PVP knockbacks. And, considering Paladin can still use all their defensive PVE buffs and Warrior still has their monster HP, and both have the heavy armor, you can still eat a considerable amount more damage than the average DPS player. That, and kiting healers and casters around the flags with shield lob is amusing.

Trade-off of being harder to kill others by being harder to kill yourself.

Also, as far as achievements go, think about the mount reward for Frontlines. You can only get it via getting FIRST PLACE. If more players were concerned with it, everyone would have jumped ship and joined the same FC across most servers, fully breaking frontlines since everyone would be playing for the same team. This isn't the case at all. SE made it so that even losing teams get a decent reward, everyone getting the same amount of tomes, and your placement only affect wolf marks for PVP based gear. If we still have this kind of set-up for rewards, I think Slaughter will be just fine.

[Miburo]

snip

Again, you didn't say healers can get kills in that quote. You said what I quoted. Healers are bad if they're not getting kills is what you wrote. That isn't the case. Anyone who actually does frontlines and has the ability to recognize skill isn't going to ever say someone isn't a good healer because he never kills anyone. You said that a healer is bad if he doesn't get kills. That's what you wrote! If it isn't want you meant then just say so. All I'm saying is that what you wrote, that I quoted multiple times, is wrong. Because it is. That's it.

And if you're sitting on the outpost as a healer trying to dps a guy down then you're either pretty bad at frontlines or your entire party/alliance is pretty bad, and the guy you're dpsing is really bad if he gets killed by some healer defending the outpost.

And not playing healer because you're rewarded more as a dps isn't "bad play." Bad game design, maybe...

[Nalien]

If it isn't want you meant then just say so.

What I meant, and what I've repeatably been clarifying, is that good Healers can get kills, and that they damn well should be contributing some damage. Did I mean Healers should get a kill or more every match? No. I simply meant that Healers can and will get kills. I find it extremely doubtful that there are any serious PvPers playing Healer who have gone 100 matches without a single kill.

And if you're sitting on the outpost as a healer trying to dps a guy down then you're either pretty bad at frontlines, your entire party/alliance is pretty bad, and the guy you're dpsing is really bad if he gets killed by some healer defending the outpost.

And if that doesn't honestly suggest I actually play Frontlines, I don't know what will. Just because there is an ideal scenario that should play out doesn't mean it always will. Individuals have different skill levels and different groups end up doing different things. There are far more scenarios than the simple 8v8@Flag that can play out in Frontlines. Like I said, I think you're oversimplifying how most matches play out, though perhaps it's just a difference in data center.

And not playing healer because you're rewarded more as a dps isn't "bad play." Bad game design, maybe...

Like I said, I don't think Achievements have enough pull to significantly impact the game. I'm sure they will for some people, but I really doubt the majority of people are going to care that much. Every party I've seen with 8 DPS/Tanks someone or more always ends up switching to Healer, I don't see a set of Achievements changing that just like I don't see people abandoning Markets to farm the Drone Achievement.

[Rhas]

The only way i see for healers to get tht bonus is to " killsteal" from their team as we have no killing potential anymore due to SE taking out CS. No one wants killstealers right?

I can't help but just laugh. Really. Killstealing.... seriously?

The point of PvP is to make your targets dead. Plain and simple. Dead and fast as you can. Kill your enemies faster, kill the PvE targets to 51% before your enemies to claim credit.

Do you really believe that anyone in PvP is going to care about killstealing... well except maybe you.

You want to win, yes? Damage everything you can to try to make them dead first. Plain and simple. Your side gangs up? Great... you will probably win faster. If you are really not damaging your enemies just because someone else got the 1st hit, your team probably isn't winning.

This attitude about PvP really boggles my mind... Even more than people just farming it for light lol

[Miburo]

What I meant, and what I've repeatably been clarifying, is that good Healers can get kills, and that they damn well should be contributing some damage. Did I mean Healers should get a kill or more every match? No. I simply meant that Healers can and will get kills. I find it extremely doubtful that there are any serious PvPers playing Healer who have gone 100 matches without a single kill.

My bro, Face Breaker, is a healer main who probably has more frontline wins than most people have matches and he'd guess he hasn't had a single frontline kill that didn't involve pushing dudes off of mid as a healer post-CSnerf (Which I'm fairly certain do not count towards your kills since they die from fall damage). And he's exceptionally good at healer dpsing in other content (And could kill people like crazy before losing cleric stance). He isn't bad, and you can check lodestone frontline standings to see that he's a serious pvper.

But doesn't really matter if you're admitting that what you wrote is completely different than what you meant. "A healer is bad if he doesn't get kills" doesn't in any way translate to "a good healer may occasional get a kill every now and then." Those are two different statements. A really terrible healer can get a kill every now and then too. Contrary to what you wrote, getting kills isn't a criteria for good frontline healing. If you didn't mean what you wrote, that if a healer doesn't get kills he's bad, then fine. Just say that, no need to clarify any more than that because I couldn't care less what you meant. My stance is that what you wrote, that I quoted, is wrong. If you've no objection (because you didn't actually mean what you wrote) then that's the end of it, little guy.

[sharazisspecial]

Do you really believe that anyone in PvP is going to care about killstealing... well except maybe you.

They will now that theres this new Kill streak buff. If you KS you will deny your dps this buff .

[Rhas]

They will now that theres this new Kill streak buff. If you KS you will deny your dps this buff .

So... you are just going to let your teammates die because they hit the target first? That seems... logical... well... not really.

If those people demanding others not join in "their" fight really think the enemy going to do the same, I have to laugh even harder.

I might even be tempted just to let them die in front of me for fun then kill their opponent just after they die to get full credit. (this is sarcasm, if you didn't notice) rofl

[Mholito]

So... you are just going to let your teammates die because they hit the target first? That seems... logical... well... not really.

If those people demanding others not join in "their" fight really think the enemy going to do the same, I have to laugh even harder.

I might even be tempted just to let them die in front of me for fun then kill their opponent just after they die to get full credit. (this is sarcasm, if you didn't notice) rofl

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the discussion was about whether or not healers should try to snipe the last hit on an opponent to get the killstreak buff.