Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Sunako]

These jobs are support jobs but BLM and SMN are the ony ones that does not support damage.

Bard
- sing foe support magical damage
- sing tp support melee damage
- sing mana suppor summoner damage and healers heals

Monk
- Dragon kick support damage and reduce attacks from the boss.
- mantra support heals

Dragoon
- Disembowel support bards damage
- mantra support heals

Ninja
- Goad support tp and that way more damage
- Trick attack support whole party damage
- slashing debuff support slashing damage
- mantra support heals

SMN
- Combat ress raise from the dead
- Virus reduce enemy damage
- eye reduce enemy damage

BLM
- Virus reduce enemy damage
- eye reduce enemy damage
- Apocatastasis reduce enemy damage

[point09micron]

These jobs are support jobs but BLM and SMN are the ony ones that does not support damage.

BLM
- Virus reduce enemy damage
- eye reduce enemy damage
- Apocatastasis reduce enemy damage

You can't call BLM support when 2 of the 3 abilities you list are cross-class from Arcanist. A more reasonable statement would be Apocatastasis, Lethargy, and Sleep. Two of which don't work on most 8-man content (Lethargy works on Scylla and I think Glasya, but that's all that I know of).

[Spayd]

You can't call BLM support when 2 of the 3 abilities you list are cross-class from Arcanist. A more reasonable statement would be Apocatastasis, Lethargy, and Sleep. Two of which don't work on most 8-man content (Lethargy works on Scylla and I think Glasya, but that's all that I know of).

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

[point09micron]

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

My point was that a list of ways BLMs support the group should not include Virus and Eye for an Eye.

[Sunako]

My point was that a list of ways BLMs support the group should not include Virus and Eye for an Eye.

And the reason? Because those are cross class skills? I did not say those skills are huge support. Even small support is support and better than nothing. Your statement is almost same than that Raging Strikes should not include damage increasing ability for SMN or BLM. Or invigorate should not include tp generating ability for bards/ninjas/monks.

[point09micron]

And the reason? Because those are cross class skills? I did not say those skills are huge support. Even small support is support and better than nothing. Your statement is almost same than that Raging Strikes should not include damage increasing ability for SMN or BLM. Or invigorate should not include tp generating ability for bards/ninjas/monks.

Yes, that's exactly why. Obviously. You don't say "Scholar supports the group with Stoneskin," because it's A) not a skill they gain naturally, and B) not the optimal class to use it.

[Sunako]

Yes, that's exactly why. Obviously. You don't say "Scholar supports the group with Stoneskin," because it's A) not a skill they gain naturally, and B) not the optimal class to use it.

I do not really get your logic. If eye have 1min longer cd as BLM how that is not optimal class use it anymore? Or if virus is little weaker it can still be used on multiple adds in final coil etc. Comparing stoneskin does not make any sense.

[Sanguisio]

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

Now they can but before it would have been silly to have a BLM kite as you have to spend time out of range of the boss and adds at times which results in a DPS loss a SMN still has DOTs ticking, can place and "bind" the target in place.

Its one of those you can cut a steak with a spoon but a knife would be better scenarios

[point09micron]

Once again: a list of ways one class supports the party should not include abilities from other classes. I don't see how this isn't clear.

[Sanguisio]

You both are correctish, moreso point09.

E4AE is regardless beneficial as they is no CD debuff
But virus I would argue isnt that great on blm due to a few things
-most mass AOEs e.g gigaflare, nerve gas, hellfire etc are magic damage and the BLM virus does nothing to this.
-Also while it does help with STR debuffing most BLMs use it at the wrong times which means antivirus is up when a SMN/SCH need to debuff properly. It's useful but not amazing.



But when discussing jobs you need to make it job specific, no point me saying CNJ is better than WHM because its 9 utilites which are half useful y'know.

BLM:
manaward - very meh only reduces damage by negligible amount, by comparison second wind destroys it and it is only applied to the BLM so not a party utility.
Manawall - alot better then manaward as you can use it for earthshockers etc but same as above helpful but any other dps can deal with the mechanics with heals or good timing e.g. titan LB on adds etc
apoc - amazing utility and should be used more often.
Lethargy - works on little where it matters usually overshadowed by miasma
Freeze - same as above shadowed by tri disaster, plus it will mess up fire/ice rotation where you should only have time to apply thunder then be back on fire so very rarely viable.
Sleep - amazing utility pvp, speedruns, etc but end game useless.

SMN
Virus - raid wide damage reduction of all types of damage.
E4AE - same as above and can be triggered on limitless mobs while it is up.
Resurrection - while you shouldnt be doing it at all, with ballad it is very viable raid utility and something no other class can do. There is a reason skills like auto life, life, raise etc are fundamental in RPGs and the fact a dps can do it is great. However without someone dying it is as useful as zilch, so it is situation-reliant.
Miasma - see above, also if they bring out mobs who regen as a mechanic, not the when I eat I get full health nonsense it will be even better.
SF - very minimal not worth mentioning.
Stun - its a stun nothing more needed.
Blind - its a blind nothing more needed.
knock back- " "
DPS without having to target - on fights like levi, t5 etc the DOTs still tick when you are unable to target them.
Tri - Disaster - the more useful of the useless binds