Healers tanking low level dungeons

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Thank you Zedd. I wanted to say something, but I've really just hit that point where it's simply not worth it.

My remedy, sadly, is to simply wait out the tide. Don't even bother queuing for dungeons for now while all this nonsense is going on. Might take longer, but I usually end up capping purely through Coil, and I've never cared about capping as is. Hopefully the next relic step takes people back out of dungeons. Give 'em another Novus-like step or center it around hunts.

Or hell, SE consider making Guildhests a viable alternative as has been previously suggested.

[Zedd702]

Thank you Zedd. I wanted to say something, but I've really just hit that point where it's simply not worth it.

My remedy, sadly, is to simply wait out the tide. Don't even bother queuing for dungeons for now while all this nonsense is going on. Might take longer, but I usually end up capping purely through Coil, and I've never cared about capping as is. Hopefully the next relic step takes people back out of dungeons. Give 'em another Novus-like step or center it around hunts.

Or hell, SE consider making Guildhests a viable alternative as has been previously suggested.

I completely understand, ThirdChild.

All it takes is a few bads to ruin it for everyone when it comes to DF. I mean we have the issue with lack of tanks & healers in DF, due to not enough tank/healer roles in comparison to DPS, but then you get people like Yumi_umi, who most likely came from the part of the WoW community that turned me away from the game early on, that would rather demean a new tanker and drive them to hang up FF14 instead of helping he/she learn their class TO BE more efficient/effective for higher level tanking etc. I run into and attempt it with every new tanker/healer I come across in DF, DPS is not that difficult to play (outside of optimizing DPS and meeting DPS checks in certain fights).

It is also people like her that would cry about queue times etc, but does not take into consideration of the indirect damage she does to dungeon queuing with her "I'll tell the tank to go afk," "They're useless until the boss fight," "blah blah" nonsense.

The devs have to make a delicate balance as an MMO only goes as far as players will take it. If DF dies, new players will hang the game up early and consequently SE loses revenue and affect new expansions/support for the game.

[StouterTaru]

This is more understandable. But in the situation I'm describing, the healer is just going ahead and tanking. Healer even refused to use protect. :/

This sounds like me in a tam tara run last week. I was on SCH, level cap is below 20, so 1 cross class skill allowed. I cross cleric stance and let Eos heal, since nothing hits hard enough to for protect to make any difference.

Tank didn't seem to know where he was going, and many times stood in one place for over 30 seconds, doing nothing. When that happened, I pulled.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Not saying it's part of your role, Stouter, but what would've been a better idea - as the player more experienced - would've been to help point him in the right direction. Or at least communicate with him. Was he waiting for TP to restore? Did he have something going on on his end that called his attention away for a bit? You know, RL stuff? Did you know? Did you ask? Or did you simply make a selfish choice and perhaps set a bad precedent for that tank?

I might sound a bit scathing there, and that wasn't the intent. But let me just say if and when there's a tank shortage again, remember this. Remember this entire thread.

[StouterTaru]

He was a gladiator, so the only possible way to run low on TP is to use sprint, which I never saw him do. He also didn't use flash, so it wasn't an MP issue.

I was the only one in the party to use any kind of chat during the run, including telling them the last boss required killing the imps first, and that they were doing zero damage staying on the boss. I waited on pulled enough that it stretched a <20 minute dungeon well over half an hour, and if I had waited on him it likely would have taken over 45 minutes.

A different run in toto rak I had a tank that got pissy because the dps were pulling hate off him, so he had a hissy fit and stopped doing anything. We went ahead without him, and killed the first two bosses before he rejoined us with his tail between his legs. I'll take a tank shortage over being at the mercy of baby prima donnas any day.

[Zedd702]

This sounds like me in a tam tara run last week. I was on SCH, level cap is below 20, so 1 cross class skill allowed. I cross cleric stance and let Eos heal, since nothing hits hard enough to for protect to make any difference.

Tank didn't seem to know where he was going, and many times stood in one place for over 30 seconds, doing nothing. When that happened, I pulled.

Yeh...

Bad example to the new (or even established) tank. There are plenty of people that obviously have been playing since 2011+ that have been doing it the wrong way (Yumi_umi is living proof of that), but this type of bad practice really needs to stop. Experienced players are there to teach and make progress easier. Did you know how to add or were you taught how to do so? Experience and patience goes hand in hand when dealing with new/established (but shabby players). It would be one thing if you attempted to communicate with the tank or help him learn what he is supposed to do, but instead ignored you, THEN your decision would have been justified.

But to just do what you did in the above example is just not right.

He was a gladiator, so the only possible way to run low on TP is to use sprint, which I never saw him do. He also didn't use flash, so it wasn't an MP issue.

I was the only one in the party to use any kind of chat during the run, including telling them the last boss required killing the imps first, and that they were doing zero damage staying on the boss. I waited on pulled enough that it stretched a <20 minute dungeon well over half an hour, and if I had waited on him it likely would have taken over 45 minutes.

A different run in toto rak I had a tank that got pissy because the dps were pulling hate off him, so he had a hissy fit and stopped doing anything. We went ahead without him, and killed the first two bosses before he rejoined us with his tail between his legs. I'll take a tank shortage over being at the mercy of baby prima donnas any day.

And you could've taken 2-3 minutes to explain how flash works and why/how the tank should use it, instead of having your own hissy fit and doing what you did. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.

[Yumi_umi]

Bad healer and bad player alert! If you want it to go faster, then cast Stone and Aero on the mobs if you're WHM, and Miasma and Bio if you're SCH, don't just grab every mob in the dungeon you fool.

Why not do both, tank and dps and ofc heal urself.
Not really trying to sound like the "badguy" but honestly i bet 70%+ of the player base don't really care what ppl do as long as they get the dungeons done quick and clean.
I've done this tank business in every dungeon already and know my limits and what can kill me etc.
i got lots of commendations and praise from my fellow party members cuz sometimes there just isn't a tank qeuing in progress for brayflox and someone has to do the job.
^^

[StouterTaru]

And you could've taken 2-3 minutes to explain how flash works and why/how the tank should use it, instead of having your own hissy fit and doing what you did. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.

There is absolutely no need for a tank in any a dungeon before level 30, why should he be required to take that lead, and why should everyone else wait to follow him?

He was welcome to take a leading role in the party, but he did not. The rest of the party proceeded with him in tow.

[Zedd702]

Why not do both, tank and dps and ofc heal urself.
Not really trying to sound like the "badguy" but honestly i bet 70%+ of the player base don't really care what ppl do as long as they get the dungeons done quick and clean.
I've done this tank business in every dungeon already and know my limits and what can kill me etc.
i got lots of commendations and praise from my fellow party members cuz sometimes there just isn't a tank qeuing in progress for brayflox and someone has to do the job.
^^

Um perhaps you should go back to page 2 and see all the negative responses you got regarding the post the person you quoted responded to. I'm sure there you will find that alot of people rejected this practice outright...

There is absolutely no need for a tank in any a dungeon before level 30, why should he be required to take that lead, and why should everyone else wait to follow him?

He was welcome to take a leading role in the party, but he did not. The rest of the party proceeded with him in tow.

If there is no need for one DF would not have one listed for it to trigger...

Just as he was welcomed to take a leading role, you were welcomed to take a stance as an experienced player and educate... but you did not.

[Whiston]

I definitely side with the opinion of efficiency here.

I actually see this more frequently than ever it seems.
A tank stands around for a while, party members ask him to go, no responses in chat, improper use of skills, etc.

Are you honestly going to argue that you'll type entire novels of optimistic encouragement to a bad tank, only to possibly receive the reply "No English", or no reply at all, and then continue on waiting for this tank to figure out how to hold their mouse or controller while you waste tens of minutes for them to find their keyboard?

There's a point that you realize someone is incompetent, lost, afk, a bot, or whatever plethora of reasons causes a tank to just stand around for no reason in a dungeon. At this point, it is absolutely acceptable to continue on as their presence is no longer required.